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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Palin the Libertarian?
« on: September 23, 2009, 03:48:21 PM »
So posits biggovernment.com (purveyor of all things O'Keefe and Giles):

http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/23/palin-the-libertarian/


I'm not sold on the idea as many libertarians I've met don't do well with the family values set.

Be that as it may I think it would so split the GOP as to leave the dems unassailable.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2009, 03:50:41 PM »
Quote from: Mr Snuggle Bunny on September 23, 2009, 03:48:21 PM
So posits biggovernment.com (purveyor of all things O'Keefe and Giles):

http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/23/palin-the-libertarian/


I'm not sold on the idea as many libertarians I've met don't do well with the family values set.

Be that as it may I think it would so split the GOP as to leave the dems unassailable.

Maybe it's time for the GOP to dissolve and have a new political party that actually represents conservatism -- not that the Libertarian Party completely represents that ideal.

Libertarians are a little too loose on the social side of things for me, but the GOP needs to get its collective head out of its ass. The clock is ticking.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2009, 03:55:27 PM »
<------All for getting rid of ALL parties and voting strictly on issues.
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2009, 03:59:56 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on September 23, 2009, 03:55:27 PM
<------All for getting rid of ALL parties and voting strictly on issues.

Or along the same lines, get rid of the Dem and Repub party's and replace them with "Conservative Party" and "Liberal Party."

.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2009, 04:01:35 PM »
Or perhaps it's because as of late, there's not a dime's worth of difference between the GOP and Dems, fiscally speaking.  Anything else would be conveniently (perhaps oversimplified) as libertarian.

I get accused of being a libertarian quite a bit.  That's a fallacy that doesn't last long.
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2009, 04:04:53 PM »
Quote from: USA4ME on September 23, 2009, 03:59:56 PM
Or along the same lines, get rid of the Dem and Repub party's and replace them with "Conservative Party" and "Liberal Party."

.
That I could see b/c the way things are today nothing in the names of the current parties has any meaning as to what they believe.

It's hard to call yourself a republican when the GOP is too busy arguing both sides of the same coin with the dems. We need clear delineation not this bipartisan bullshit. It will be a favor to both libs and cons.
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Offline IassaFTots

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2009, 04:07:32 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on September 23, 2009, 03:55:27 PM
<------All for getting rid of ALL parties and voting strictly on issues.

Agreed!


It would be interesting to see if she could do something with the Libertarian Party though.  Crap, last year they didn't even have their convention until waaaaaaay after the others.  If they want support, and publicity, they are going to have to work alot harder.  
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Offline asdf2231

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2009, 05:05:49 PM »
Quote from: NHSparky on September 23, 2009, 04:01:35 PM
Or perhaps it's because as of late, there's not a dime's worth of difference between the GOP and Dems, fiscally speaking.  Anything else would be conveniently (perhaps oversimplified) as libertarian.

I get accused of being a libertarian quite a bit.  That's a fallacy that doesn't last long.

It's that whole "Metrosexual" thing you got going on.  People get confused.


:-)
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2009, 05:24:50 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on September 23, 2009, 03:55:27 PM
<------All for getting rid of ALL parties and voting strictly on issues.

+1 (or +1 more)
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Offline Mustang

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2009, 06:07:59 PM »
I don't support 3rd parties or independent parties. The 2 party system is as close to perfect for a democracy--because if one party's candidate wins-they will have the majority of the vote.

If we had 3 or more political parties that were all powerful, and one party takes over aspects of our government with only 1/3 of the vote that would not represent the people. Having 1/3 of the population or less choosing our government is not a democracy. And the more powerful political parties you have -- the more diluted your "democracy" becomes. If we had 10 political parties, all of them powerful, and one wins 15% of the vote for all branches of government and that becomes the majority, that is not a democracy! And it would make it easier for career politicians to get elected because all they have to do is appeal to their 15% or less population base, making it that much harder to defeat incumbents.

Even if we had a third powerful party, that would be awful for democracy. Imagine the Libertarian party becoming the "Second Republican party"-
(hypothetically speaking). And they consistently garnished half of all conservative voters. Then you would have the liberal democratic party becoming a permanent majority power forever...

As much as I like Glenn Beck, he is WRONG when he says "it doesn't matter if you are a Republican or a Democrat." Or "This isn't about Democrats or Republicans."
If you said that to Rush Limbaugh, he would smack you against the head and say "Yes, it does matter!" Even though many Republican politicians hate Rush Limbaugh, Rush is smart enough to know that WE conservatives need to take over the party, not dismiss it  and let the liberals get a free pass for elections.

I am proud to be a registered Republican. For all its mistakes, the Republican party gave me great leaders like Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, and Chris Christie who is running for Governor of my home state of New Jersey.
Yes there are some RINOS in the party, but the solution is not to abandon the party and surrender to the liberals but to take over our party and unite against the liberals.

If Sarah Palin becomes a libertarian, she would do more to harm her country than any other conservative can. By empowering the libertarians, you empower your liberal enemies. Food for thought.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 06:30:00 PM by Mustang »
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2009, 06:36:14 PM »
THE US IS NOT A DEMOCRACY.

Sorry for yelling, but I feel pretty strongly about that.  Our FF created a Republic.  Politicians have spent the last century trying to turn it inot a democracy.
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Offline Mustang

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2009, 06:44:42 PM »
Quote from: rich_t on September 23, 2009, 06:36:14 PM
THE US IS NOT A DEMOCRACY.

Sorry for yelling, but I feel pretty strongly about that.  Our FF created a Republic.  Politicians have spent the last century trying to turn it inot a democracy.

I would disagree with you. That kind of attitude doesn't help you or me.

Think of it this way...when I was in college, I had a really smart but really liberal professor.
He said:

"When I was young, I was a dope-smoking hippie that protested everything. I even walked out of class in protest of what was being taught."

"Then one day I realized that I would have more effect on my beliefs if I infiltrated the system rather than protest against it."

"I'm just as radical as I was during the 60's, I just cut my hair and got a PHD."
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Offline Celtic Rose

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2009, 06:47:30 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on September 23, 2009, 03:55:27 PM
<------All for getting rid of ALL parties and voting strictly on issues.

I'll go for that.  If I recall correctly, George Washington was strongly against the idea of political parties. 

That said, I don't know how well it would play in the real world.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2009, 06:56:30 PM »
Quote from: Mustang on September 23, 2009, 06:44:42 PM
I would disagree with you. That kind of attitude doesn't help you or me.

Think of it this way...when I was in college, I had a really smart but really liberal professor.
He said:

"When I was young, I was a dope-smoking hippie that protested everything. I even walked out of class in protest of what was being taught."

"Then one day I realized that I would have more effect on my beliefs if I infiltrated the system rather than protest against it."

"I'm just as radical as I was during the 60's, I just cut my hair and got a PHD."


In what way would you disagree with me?  Are you claiming that the FF did NOT create a republic?
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Offline Mustang

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2009, 06:58:30 PM »
Quote from: rich_t on September 23, 2009, 06:56:30 PM
In what way would you disagree with me?  Are you claiming that the FF did NOT create a republic?

What exactly is the difference between a republic and a democracy? Sorry for my ignorance, but I thought they were the same.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2009, 07:07:08 PM »
I guess US government wasn't fully covered by your super smart liberal PhD professor.

Hopefully this will give you a feel for the differences.

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2009, 07:11:44 PM »
BTW Mustang,

Never apologize for legitimate ignorance.  We are all ignorant on a variety of topics.

It is willful or intentional ignorance that chaps my but.
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Offline TheSarge

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2009, 07:29:14 PM »
Quote from: Mustang on September 23, 2009, 06:58:30 PM
What exactly is the difference between a republic and a democracy? Sorry for my ignorance, but I thought they were the same.

We are a Representative Republic.

The people elect people to represent their interests and their part of the country in D.C.

A straight Democracy means The Individual, and any group of Individuals composing any Minority, have no protection against the unlimited power of The Majority.

Otherwise mob rule.
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Offline Mustang

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2009, 07:45:28 PM »
Quote from: rich_t on September 23, 2009, 07:07:08 PM
I guess US government wasn't fully covered by your super smart liberal PhD professor.

Hopefully this will give you a feel for the differences.

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html

Thank you for sharing that, that was breathtaking.

I believe the Republican party is the most closely aligned with the idea of the Republic as stated in that document you just shared.
Of course the party needs improvement towards the goal of preserving and protecting the Republic.
I believe the best course of protest is to infiltrate the system itself and work it towards the ultimate ideals we share, that's why I shared that little story about my Professor.

Quote from: rich_t on September 23, 2009, 07:11:44 PM
BTW Mustang,

Never apologize for legitimate ignorance.  We are all ignorant on a variety of topics.

It is willful or intentional ignorance that chaps my but.

That's why I am a conservative. Conservatives seek the truth, while liberals bury their heads in sands of ignorance.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 07:47:09 PM by Mustang »
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2009, 08:24:21 PM »
Quote from: Mustang on September 23, 2009, 07:45:28 PM
Thank you for sharing that, that was breathtaking.

I believe the Republican party is the most closely aligned with the idea of the Republic as stated in that document you just shared.
Of course the party needs improvement towards the goal of preserving and protecting the Republic.
I believe the best course of protest is to infiltrate the system itself and work it towards the ultimate ideals we share, that's why I shared that little story about my Professor.


The problem is that the Republican Party is no longer "conservative".  They have been drifting to the left for decades.

I don't need to infiltrate a party that "left" me.  I keep tabs on what they do and I contact the elected of both parties to express my views.

I never lose sight of the fact that it is the people that are soveriegn and in ultimate control.  Over the last several decades, those elected to serve us seem to have lost track of this little fact.
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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2009, 08:52:39 PM »
I hope the GOP gets it's head out of it's butt soon. Mid-Terms people! Mid-Terms!

I would love to vote just on the issues but dammit, we need our party back!
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Offline Splashdown

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2009, 08:58:20 PM »
Reagan said a third party wouldn't work. I agree.

We don't have time to develop a strong third party. I just want mine back.
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Offline ATTC

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2009, 09:38:59 PM »
I'll guide you to this video for a breakdown of forms of government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7M-7LkvcVw

Quite informative.
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Offline IassaFTots

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2009, 09:47:48 PM »
Quote from: rich_t on September 23, 2009, 08:24:21 PM
The problem is that the Republican Party is no longer "conservative".  They have been drifting to the left for decades.

I don't need to infiltrate a party that "left" me.  I keep tabs on what they do and I contact the elected of both parties to express my views.

I never lose sight of the fact that it is the people that are soveriegn and in ultimate control.  Over the last several decades, those elected to serve us seem to have lost track of this little fact.

 I never claimed a party.  My viewpoints don't waiver.  I vote for the most qualified candidate.  Mind you, I have never voted democrat, but I have voted independent, libertarian, and republican.

edited for phenomenal spelling errors...
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 09:49:56 PM by IassaFTots »
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Palin the Libertarian?
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2009, 09:51:01 PM »
Quote from: ATTC on September 23, 2009, 09:38:59 PM
I'll guide you to this video for a breakdown of forms of government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7M-7LkvcVw

Quite informative.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I had lost my bookmark to that video.  That is the what I want the new folks to see.

You are awesome.
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