Oh-h-h-h, I hates those insurance companies so-o-o-o-o much!!!!

[DULurkster]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8471341#8471356

cliffordu  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)      Sun Jun-14-09 09:11 PM
Original message
Insurance isn't health care.
   
Just sayin'

 

Well duh! But my health care insurance helps me pay toward my own heath care.

Fovea  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Sun Jun-14-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree.
   
It works in the opposite way as health care.
It only does it's job right when it *denies* care to the afflicted.

I guess by douchebag logic, an auto mechanic only does his job right when he fails to properly repair your car, or a restaurant operator only does his job right when you leave his establishment disappointed. 

patrice  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)       Sun Jun-14-09 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. We are living in a toxic culture; what we have is Sick Management.
   
Individual nurses and doctors Care, but all of us are trapped.

Serial Mom  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)        Sun Jun-14-09 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Right! and healthcare is not a commodity to be sold!

Uh, why isn't it? We all have to depend on the providers (doctors, hospitals, research, etc.), aren't they entitled to fair compensation for their time and resources?

Diamonique  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)      Sun Jun-14-09 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm with you there.
   
We need to straighten out our "health care system". To hell with insurance!

A health care system (IMO) needs patients, service providers, and suppliers. Insurance companies shouldn't be part of the equation.

Don't forget to balance your "equation." If you remove the expression "insurance companies" in your "equation" you must replace it with another similar expression, such as  "a bunch of self-serving hack politicians who don't have a clue nor is it their business to run any industry, not the least heath care."

ThomCat  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sun Jun-14-09 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. No it's not. But certain politicians are hoping people don't realize that
   
until it's too late.

They'll insist on voting for access to insurance plans, instead of health care. They'll crow about how they've achieved success, and a lot of people will believe them.

Then afterward everyone will find out that they're now obligated to spend a lot of money buying insurance, and still don't have complete or affordable access to health care.

Yeah, and what did you expect with any kind of gubmint mandated and/or managed plan?!

Cleita  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)       Sun Jun-14-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. A long time ago, when I was filling out my 1040 and I didn't have
   
health insurance, I wondered why I couldn't have health care with my tax dollars. This is what this fight is about. Of course, now I evolved enough to know that health insurance is a parasitical middleman. We don't need them there, but we do need someone to pay the bills. The logical "person" ends up being our government, who pays our health care out of our taxes like we do with seniors and Medicare.

  More douchebag logic. 

PatSeg  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)     Sun Jun-14-09 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Yes, yes, yes
   
I was just saying something to that effect today. Personally, I don't think insurance should have anything to do with health care.

 

rustydad  (740 posts)      Sun Jun-14-09 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. My story
   
My dad is 90, has Medicare enhanced. Me and my siblings take care of him in his home. But we hire a worker to be there 4 nights a week. He costs us $10 an hour for a night shift mostly sleeping. But he is not is not really a health care person, just a watch keeper. He tried to calm my dads hacking the other night with the wrong drink and my dad ended up with aspirated lungs filled with fluids. Almost died and cost a huge amount of dollars to the US to fix. It is just screwed up. Bob


episode by giving him a nutrient drink and he aspirated some of it bringing on a lung event that required four days in the hospital intensive care.

Wow, these guys are real sports, they pay some poor schmo a whole $10 an hour to try to help watch out for the old man, and seem to do so grudgingly! With children like this, who needs bureaucratic health care adminitrators?

[AllosaursRus]

Well I got news for ya DUmmie, the gubmint is going to decide Daddy is to old for helth care. Under Bam Bam's health care, Daddy would have been dead at 80 or before!

Shmuck!!!!!!!!!!!

[DumbAss Tanker]

Cleita  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)       Sun Jun-14-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. A long time ago, when I was filling out my 1040 and I didn't have
   
health insurance, I wondered why I couldn't have health care with my tax dollars.

Because you don't put in enough tax dollars to pay for it?  Assuming, Cleita, that unlike the vast majority of DUmmies, you even DO pay income taxes in  the net instead of living off of relatives, coffee-house table-waiting undeclared tips, leeching off relatives, or collecting SSI for mental disabilities or being too fat to work.

[Ralph Wiggum]

So, once health care/insurance is a right...doesn't that mean that eventually auto insurance and insurance of all kinds will become a right?  Single-payer car insurance NOW!!!!

[BEG]

Cleita  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)       Sun Jun-14-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. A long time ago, when I was filling out my 1040 and I didn't have
   
health insurance, I wondered why I couldn't have health care with my tax dollars. This is what this fight is about. Of course, now I evolved enough to know that health insurance is a parasitical middleman. We don't need them there, but we do need someone to pay the bills. The logical "person" ends up being our government, who pays our health care out of our taxes like we do with seniors and Medicare.

You mean the "logical" person paying your health care bills ends up being me. 

[Wineslob]

I call bullshit on every one of these DUmbasses. I've been working at the same job since 1986. From the very beginning I ELECTED to have health ins, which means, you stupid shitheads, I PAYED for it, even at my starting pay of $5.00 hr. I have NEVER been denied any kind of coverage.


You DUmmies need to get your bullshit stories straight. Oh, and Obama can shove single payer up his ass.

[zeitgeist]

Well I got news for ya DUmmie, the gubmint is going to decide Daddy is to old for helth care. Under Bam Bam's health care, Daddy would have been dead at 80 or before!

Shmuck!!!!!!!!!!!

They were starting to figure this very thing out on another thread here>

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3921320

Old Coot (375 posts)     Sat Jun-13-09 01:33 PM
Original message
Obama Seeks Spending Cuts for Some Federal Health Programs
 Source: Washington Post

President Obama today proposed to rein in spending on federal health programs for the elderly and the poor by an additional $313 billion over the next decade, bringing his total proposed savings to nearly $950 billion -- enough to cover most of the cost of sweeping health reform, a top adviser said.

In his weekly radio address, Obama proposed limiting the growth of Medicare fee-for-service payments, taking hospitals and other health providers at their word that they will reduce costs. Obama also proposed slashing subsidies to hospitals that treat uninsured patients, on the theory that very few uninsured patients will remain in the wake of reform.

Obama also suggested reducing payments to drug companies that serve Medicare recipients. Advisers declined to release details, saying the idea was still under discussion.

"These savings will come from commonsense changes," Obama said. "For example -- if more Americans are insured, we can cut payments that help hospitals treat patients without health insurance. If the drug makers pay their fair share, we can cut government spending on prescription drugs. And if doctors have incentives to provide the best care instead of more care, we can help Americans avoid the unnecessary hospital stays, treatments, and tests that drive up costs."

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suspect he is going to really screw up Medicare, including the drug program. In some areas, it is already difficult to find health care providers who will treat Medicare patients. In addition, the Medicare Part-D program doesn't cover enough for drugs the way it is. This is all we need: making Medicare worse than it already is.

I don't think the savings are there without causing undue hardship on Medicare recipients.
 

It took a few posts then:

jody  (1000+ posts)        Sat Jun-13-09 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. Obama recognizes society must ration health care for the elderly so his action was expected. n/t

and of course this is challenged forth with

Oregone (1000+ posts)      Sat Jun-13-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Why must society ration health care for the elderly?
 You say that like it is an a priori fact. Wouldn't it be more effective and humane to just ask them to commit suicide when they reach 70?

Hard to tell if the poster was serious......

Flatulo (1000+ posts)      Sat Jun-13-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
57. Of course health care has to be rationed...
 My old boss' mom had a massive stroke at 78. She was given both a mitral and aorta valve replacement, as well as a quadruple bypass, even though her chances of survival were 20%. Her surgery lasted 12 hours, and she was dead in less than 24.

She never regained consciousness.

The cost of her treatment was over $100k, and Medicare paid every cent.

Do you think this was a wise use of resources? In one day the woman cost more than she had paid in in a lifetime.

Any system that provides infinite benefits with finite resources will fail.

There is no way around this.
 

Dummies can just be so much fun to watch.   Wait until they find out that overweight diabetics are on the endangered species list.........

Old Coot (375 posts)     Sat Jun-13-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. The political establishment insists on making that decision now.
 They have to find a way to fund this universal coverage. That is what the discussion is about. Reducing health care benefits to Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries. The President apparently wants to reduce the quality of health care for millions in order to finance insuring the currently uninsured.

Like it or not, this universal coverage will result in some tough decisions. Any of these decisions will affect millions of people.

I fully expect negative consequences, personally, due to this coming change in our society.

Any bets on the old coot's longevity on DU??

lindisfarne (1000+ posts)     Sat Jun-13-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Of course, the answer to your objection is to require a minimum level of coverage which would
 Edited on Sat Jun-13-09 04:41 PM by lindisfarne
not allow for high deductible plans.

High deductible plans should never have been implemented - they lead to higher health costs because people don't get care early on in an illness. (At the very least, all high deductible plans should have been mandated to cover at least 2 physicians visits annually and basic preventive care/tests. But they have no place in a country with decent health coverage for all.

How many paid shills for the insurance industry are lurking here? Only 350 posts??

Ah yes, don't be sick.  Great solution.  Dummy logic an oxymoron.

[Carl]

That argument is always so stupid it bugs me.
It presumes to know the unexpected.

The same has been said for lots more preventative child health care ..it will be cheaper down the line because one is healthier.

How many visits does it take to prevent poor lifestyle choices in adult life that cause heart attacks?
How many to prevent a car accident?

I wonder if there will be an exclusion that says anyone who eats wrong,smokes or does anything that endangers their health long term won`t be treated or covered?

[DULurkster]

They were starting to figure this very thing out on another thread here>

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3921320


Dummies can just be so much fun to watch.   Wait until they find out that overweight diabetics are on the endangered species list.........

Good find, excellent thread for

[Carl]

Flatulo (1000+ posts)      Sat Jun-13-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
57. Of course health care has to be rationed...
 My old boss' mom had a massive stroke at 78. She was given both a mitral and aorta valve replacement, as well as a quadruple bypass, even though her chances of survival were 20%. Her surgery lasted 12 hours, and she was dead in less than 24.

She never regained consciousness.

The cost of her treatment was over $100k, and Medicare paid every cent.

Do you think this was a wise use of resources? In one day the woman cost more than she had paid in in a lifetime.

Any system that provides infinite benefits with finite resources will fail.

There is no way around this.

Elicits this response...

Oregone (1000+ posts)        Sat Jun-13-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #57
87. Died in 24? Sounds like her doctor made a shit decision
   You don't ration freedom. But you create reasonable measures in society to balance risk.

Its a similar concept to health care, because caring for a society goes much further than dollars and cents (its a matter of principle). In the extreme you mentioned, it most certainly doesn't sound like the doctor advised the "right" course of action.

Not a completely irrational post but what the DUmmy fails to mention or understand is the doctor probably did that with an eye on a swarm of lawyers descending on him/her for "letting" someones mother or grandmother die without action.

Not once ever have I seen one of them talk about what happens to liability issues that have skyrocketed the costs in their utopia of free health care on demand.

[delilahmused]

If government health care is so great why does my grandmother have to buy supplemental insurance?

Cindie