Author Topic: What Does Kim Jung Il Want?  (Read 3228 times)

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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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What Does Kim Jung Il Want?
« on: May 27, 2009, 08:56:54 AM »
Maybe it's just me but the bluster coming from North Korea seems "different" this time around. In the past the gambit has been to push back inspectors when they got too close or to extort another round of humanitarian aid. I don't think those theories apply this time, at least not to the same degree.

Near as we can tell there is no internal opposition to Kim's reign so distracting interanl enemies with an external fight doesn't pan out.

I think Kim perceives Obama as fundamentally weak (and I'm sad to say I agree with him) and perhaps a strong demonstration will cow the US into more aid with less meddling. Now, I'm sure Kim is well aware of the financial "troubles" the US is currently experiencing but to him we're still slopping over with wealth and by Mao he wants some. The fact that Obama would be cutting his own political head off if he gives Kim money after quadrupling national deficits in his first 3 months seems irrelevant to Kim.

A second nuke test and numerous missile firings in several days is one helluva display. Now Kim has declared the armistice rescinded. It's easy to wave this off with, "We've seen this all before" but the numerous missile firings and another nuke are damned expensive, especially to a nation such as North Korea. That money has to be gained back somehow. Either we give it to him or he's gonna start selling parts to Iran or anyone else. We can intercept the shipments but Kim has stated that is an act of war.

Yes, more bluster, but is it mere bluster?

It's hard to imagine a mugger firing a warning shot--let alone several warning shots on a very limited supply of bullets--only to passively stand idle as his intended mark walks away. We talk much about "credible deterrence" in regards to our own foreign policy objectives (well, we used to anyway), it seems foolish not to consider the North Koreans aren't just as cognizant of these considerations.

What does Kim want and just how far will Kim go to get what he wants?
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline formerlurker

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Re: What Does Kim Jung Il Want?
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2009, 09:02:18 AM »
He's very sick and is probably not making any of these decisions.   He wants one of his sons to replace him, thus the flexing of muscles.   

That and Obama is a total tool so why not right?


Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: What Does Kim Jung Il Want?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2009, 09:06:32 AM »
He's very sick and is probably not making any of these decisions.   He wants one of his sons to replace him, thus the flexing of muscles.   

That and Obama is a total tool so why not right?
Why bring the Pacific Rim to the brink of war just to re-assert a line of succession no one from within is challenging?

If he wanted his heir to be respected by the world these actions would be carried out in the heir's name.

Even madmen have their reasons.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: What Does Kim Jung Il Want?
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2009, 10:07:55 AM »
What he wants is to re-unite Korea, but not in a way us or the South Koreans would regard as a positive change.  He's facing the most inept and gullible foreign policy team in generations in the US, so from his point of view, it's a green light.
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: What Does Kim Jung Il Want?
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2009, 10:15:23 AM »
What he wants is to re-unite Korea, but not in a way us or the South Koreans would regard as a positive change.  He's facing the most inept and gullible foreign policy team in generations in the US, so from his point of view, it's a green light.
With no sign of the US bolstering defenses in Japan, Okinawa, Guam, etc it would take some time for the US to build up a logistical head of steam to respond. If North korean forces were sitting in Pusan before the first reinforcements entered Korean waters would it be worth it for Kim to attempt reunification by force?

Would the US--under Obama--fight a war to liberate an already conquered Korea...especially if it meant displacing the Kim regime and thus putting a democratic Korea on China's ass...which they would never tolerate?
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline formerlurker

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Re: What Does Kim Jung Il Want?
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2009, 11:23:02 AM »
Why bring the Pacific Rim to the brink of war just to re-assert a line of succession no one from within is challenging?

If he wanted his heir to be respected by the world these actions would be carried out in the heir's name.

Even madmen have their reasons.

Quote
Speculation over who will succeed to the world's first communist dynasty has grown after reports that Kim, who took over from his father and the country's founder in the mid-1990s, suffered a stroke last year.

Many analysts believe the North's internationally condemned nuclear test on Monday was partly aimed at boosting the 67-year-old leader's standing at home to give him more leverage in anointing an heir -- believed to be his third son, Kim Jong-un.

....

Park Syung-je, a Seoul-based analyst with the Asia Strategy Institute, said he believed Kim junior had the backing of Jang Song-taek, effectively the country's number 2 leader.

Kim Jong-il in April promoted Jang, his brother-in-law, to the powerful National Defence Commission, which many analysts took to be an attempt to establish a mechanism for the eventual transfer of power, with Jang as kingmaker.

In a report on Monday, the Wall Street Journal said Washington had concluded Kim had initiated a political transition in which Jang and the younger Kim were emerging as major players in a new power structure.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSSEO168410


Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: What Does Kim Jung Il Want?
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2009, 11:51:50 AM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSSEO168410
I'm not saying it isn't a factor but this is an unusual degree of bellicosity JUST to establish a line of succession.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: What Does Kim Jung Il Want?
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2009, 11:55:37 AM »
With no sign of the US bolstering defenses in Japan, Okinawa, Guam, etc it would take some time for the US to build up a logistical head of steam to respond. If North korean forces were sitting in Pusan before the first reinforcements entered Korean waters would it be worth it for Kim to attempt reunification by force?

Would the US--under Obama--fight a war to liberate an already conquered Korea...especially if it meant displacing the Kim regime and thus putting a democratic Korea on China's ass...which they would never tolerate?

Ten years ago, maybe; their army and armed forces generally were on a losing tech balance sheet even then, and a lot of Korea analysts were saying 'Now or never' if they wanted to win versus committing mass suicide.  The nukes change the picture to this degree:  A purely conventional attack by the North will be a slaughter and the ROKs would kick their ass, but use of a couple of nukes to kick it off could drastically alter the balance and the Norks being batshit crazy, delivery by suicide weapon to include their plastic stealth subs is by no means out of the question. 
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: What Does Kim Jung Il Want?
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2009, 12:26:54 PM »
Ten years ago, maybe; their army and armed forces generally were on a losing tech balance sheet even then, and a lot of Korea analysts were saying 'Now or never' if they wanted to win versus committing mass suicide.  The nukes change the picture to this degree:  A purely conventional attack by the North will be a slaughter and the ROKs would kick their ass, but use of a couple of nukes to kick it off could drastically alter the balance and the Norks being batshit crazy, delivery by suicide weapon to include their plastic stealth subs is by no means out of the question. 
I've been thinking that as well.

I think the real fly in the ointment are the ten thousand tubes of artillery aimed at Seoul. Our modern minds cannot even conceive of the devastation that would cause--our eventually winning the war notwithstanding. Could we stomach the imagery not to mention the economic ripples it would send out globally?
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: What Does Kim Jung Il Want?
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2009, 12:57:09 PM »
This seems consideration-worthy:

http://drezner.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/05/26/the_best_possible_response_to_the_north_korean_nuclear_test

But would Obama do it? It seems rather "hawkish" for him.

Would China accept?
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Duke Nukum

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Re: What Does Kim Jung Il Want?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2009, 06:04:40 PM »
I agree with the OP, Kim and the rest of the world see Obama as a pushover and what does one do with a pushover?  One pushes him over.

A part of me really thinks Obama doesn't care, he hates the United States and has an army of useful idiots to try and take it down.  Crisis has been good for his agenda so far.  He loves what Li'l Kim is doing and possibly is encouraging it behind the scenes.

Obama is friends with radical America hater William Ayers who may have even ghost written Obama's memoir so this doesn't seem to be any stretch to me.
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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: What Does Kim Jung Il Want?
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2009, 12:07:21 AM »
Mquote]

He only wants a little TLC, a little soft shoe, some chips if you have them and a drink of water

Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: What Does Kim Jung Il Want?
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2009, 12:11:03 AM »
Kim Jong-Il is never up to any good.
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