Planned Parenthood Matters

[Chris_]

Planned Parenthood Matters

‘We want fewer and better children . . . and we cannot make the social life and the world-peace we are determined to make, with the ill-bred, ill-trained swarms of inferior citizens that you inflict on us.”

That ghastly message appeared in the introduction to Margaret Sanger’s 1922 book, The Pivot of Civilization.

In a little-noticed incident, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently announced that she is “really in awe” of Sanger. “The 20th-century reproductive-rights movement, really embodied in the life and leadership of Margaret Sanger, was one of the most transformational in the entire history of the human race,” Clinton declaimed upon receiving an award from the organization that Sanger founded, Planned Parenthood.

Clinton’s speech punctured the fiction that she’s a moderate — the radical organization Planned Parenthood certainly has confidence in her.

*snip*

According to its just-released annual report for 2007–2008, the Planned Parenthood Federation of America was responsible for conducting 305,310 abortions in the United States in 2007, an increase from 289,750 the previous year. Consider that the next time an abortion advocate tells you women are being kept from getting abortions in America. That increase in abortions provided by PPFA coincided with an increase in government funding, from $337 million to $350 million.

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[DumbAss Tanker]

The only difference between that and Hitler's eugenics goal was that he wanted MORE and better children.  Along with some unimportant cosmetic differences in what each of them regarded as "Better."

 

[Lanie]

Many people have appreciation for Margaret Sanger because she fought for our right to simply take birth control and for doctors to give birth control advice. After seeing a woman die of an illegal abortion, she took to the streets with signs saying that birth control needed to be legal. She went to jail for that cause. As a woman, I have to be thankful to her for that.

Her attitude regarding the poor, immigrants, handicapped people and so forth was highly offensive. Most pro-choicers today admit she was in the wrong. Also need to point out that with the exception of those with disabilities, she generally did not support forced sterilization. This idea that she was going to force all blacks and poors not to reproduce is wrong.

Our country tends to hold particular other people in "awe". One would be George Washington, who had slaves. Another was Abe Lincoln, who admitted that preserving the Union was more important than ending slavery to him, even believed in a supposed moderate solution of blacks being free, but living seperately from us. Thomas Jefferson probably had a love child to a slave. Christopher Columbus thought it was okay to be racist toward those he met. For some reason, these people are still considered heroes because of the other things that they did. People will still say they're heroes while condemning certain other things they did. I don't see why Sanger should be different.

I think I can condemn those nasty ideas of hers and still be grateful to her for encouraging a change in the laws regarding birth control.

[DixieBelle]

"The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it." Margaret Sanger, Women and the New Race (Eugenics Publ. Co., 1920, 1923)

I'm in "awe" alright. 

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEja-1emRic[/youtube]

How ironic that DUmp monkeys would not exist if Sanger had her wish. 

[Lanie]

I'm in "awe" alright. 

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEja-1emRic[/youtube]

How ironic that DUmp monkeys would not exist if Sanger had her wish. 

See? You should support abortion. If you support it, liberals will abort themselves out of existence. 

I'm guessing that Sanger was speaking about a large family which was starving, suffering. I don't think she wanted people to actually do that. Still a shitty thing to say though.

[thundley4]

See? You should support abortion. If you support it, liberals will abort themselves out of existence. 

I'm guessing that Sanger was speaking about a large family which was starving, suffering. I don't think she wanted people to actually do that. Still a shitty thing to say though.

At what point do you stop making excuses for the racist founder of the group you so admire? 

[MrsSmith]

See? You should support abortion. If you support it, liberals will abort themselves out of existence. 

I'm guessing that Sanger was speaking about a large family which was starving, suffering. I don't think she wanted people to actually do that. Still a shitty thing to say though.

Still enjoying the idea of slaughtering children, I see.  Great thing to laugh about, I'm sure.   

[Lanie]

At what point do you stop making excuses for the racist founder of the group you so admire? 

Not making excuses. Simply pointing out that like a lot of people in history, there was good and not just bad. Why is it okay
to regard men in history who were slave owners and had other crappy actions as a hero, but we can't even acknowledge Sanger's contribution? Before Birth control was declared to be a right, women could end up being baby machines. There's nothing pro-life about a woman dying in childbirth because she's had too many kids.

And Mrs. Smith, I obviously don't laugh at abortion. I'm simply adding to Dixie's joke about how DUers wouldn't be here. I like your selective noting of stuff.

[Lanie]

Not making excuses. Simply pointing out that like a lot of people in history, there was good and not just bad. Why is it okay
to regard men in history who were slave owners and had other crappy actions as a hero, but we can't even acknowledge Sanger's contribution? Before Birth control was declared to be a right, women could end up being baby machines. There's nothing pro-life about a woman dying in childbirth because she's had too many kids.

And Mrs. Smith, I obviously don't laugh at abortion. I'm simply adding to Dixie's joke about how DUers wouldn't be here. I like your selective noting of stuff.

And not that it matters, but I said on another board that I'm personally pro-life now due to personal reasons (some of which actually have to do with going against ideas Sanger used to preach for).  I didn't want to declare that on here because I don't want people who hated me over the abortion thing to suddenly like and or respect me. It'll drive me up the walls, and I'll hate that. Truth is I've never laughed at actual abortion (maybe jokes like what Dixie made, but not actual abortions).

[EastFacingNorth]

Many people have appreciation for Margaret Sanger because she fought for our right to simply take birth control and for doctors to give birth control advice. After seeing a woman die of an illegal abortion, she took to the streets with signs saying that birth control needed to be legal. She went to jail for that cause. As a woman, I have to be thankful to her for that.

Her attitude regarding the poor, immigrants, handicapped people and so forth was highly offensive. Most pro-choicers today admit she was in the wrong. Also need to point out that with the exception of those with disabilities, she generally did not support forced sterilization. This idea that she was going to force all blacks and poors not to reproduce is wrong.

Our country tends to hold particular other people in "awe". One would be George Washington, who had slaves. Another was Abe Lincoln, who admitted that preserving the Union was more important than ending slavery to him, even believed in a supposed moderate solution of blacks being free, but living seperately from us. Thomas Jefferson probably had a love child to a slave. Christopher Columbus thought it was okay to be racist toward those he met. For some reason, these people are still considered heroes because of the other things that they did. People will still say they're heroes while condemning certain other things they did. I don't see why Sanger should be different.

I think I can condemn those nasty ideas of hers and still be grateful to her for encouraging a change in the laws regarding birth control.

"Sure, that Holocaust was some nasty business, but what about all the good things Hitler did?"

[Lanie]

"Sure, that Holocaust was some nasty business, but what about all the good things Hitler did?"

It's odd that you say that. That's the exact reason I didn't use Andrew Jackson as an example of a man who did good things and yet killed so many. Trail of Tears. How do Americans react to him? They put him on a twenty dollar bill. It honestly does disgust me. You were saying?


On another note, I apologize for the joke I made earlier. It was in really bad taste.

[DixieBelle]

And not that it matters, but I said on another board that I'm personally pro-life now due to personal reasons (some of which actually have to do with going against ideas Sanger used to preach for).  I didn't want to declare that on here because I don't want people who hated me over the abortion thing to suddenly like and or respect me. It'll drive me up the walls, and I'll hate that. Truth is I've never laughed at actual abortion (maybe jokes like what Dixie made, but not actual abortions).

I wasn't laughing at actual abortion. I was laughing at the words being spoken in the video. The words that came out of Dear Mrs. Sanger's mouth when describing the "unfit, undesirables, etc...." DU worships at the altar of abortion yet Dear Mrs. Sanger would have gotten rid of them post hast. Useful idiots.

[Lanie]

I wasn't laughing at actual abortion. I was laughing at the words being spoken in the video. The words that came out of Dear Mrs. Sanger's mouth when describing the "unfit, undesirables, etc...." DU worships at the altar of abortion yet Dear Mrs. Sanger would have gotten rid of them post hast. Useful idiots.

I know you weren't laughing at actual abortion either, just the logic of DUers. Sorry not to have been more clear.

[Wineslob]

I know you weren't laughing at actual abortion either, just the logic of DUers. Sorry not to have been more clear.

You've been clear enough, I can be too...........Sanger was a piece of shit.

[Vagabond]

Many people have appreciation for Margaret Sanger because she fought for our right to simply take birth control and for doctors to give birth control advice. After seeing a woman die of an illegal abortion, she took to the streets with signs saying that birth control needed to be legal. She went to jail for that cause. As a woman, I have to be thankful to her for that.

Her attitude regarding the poor, immigrants, handicapped people and so forth was highly offensive. Most pro-choicers today admit she was in the wrong. Also need to point out that with the exception of those with disabilities, she generally did not support forced sterilization. This idea that she was going to force all blacks and poors not to reproduce is wrong.

Our country tends to hold particular other people in "awe". One would be George Washington, who had slaves. Another was Abe Lincoln, who admitted that preserving the Union was more important than ending slavery to him, even believed in a supposed moderate solution of blacks being free, but living seperately from us. Thomas Jefferson probably had a love child to a slave. Christopher Columbus thought it was okay to be racist toward those he met. For some reason, these people are still considered heroes because of the other things that they did. People will still say they're heroes while condemning certain other things they did. I don't see why Sanger should be different.

I think I can condemn those nasty ideas of hers and still be grateful to her for encouraging a change in the laws regarding birth control.

Except birth control made unplanned pregnancies into "unwanted" pregnancies.  It was a scant step to from an unwanted child to allowing abortions for the mother of the unwanted child.

Except that it made the fantasy of every fourteen year old boy available.  Men can have sex without consequences because birth control frees them from that responsibility (or theoretically should).  After all if she didn't take care of birth control before hand, she can just have an abortion afterwards. 

Birth Control that Margaret Sanger supported and instituted has done far more damage to women than any other thing.  Her achievements are not heroic, she has actually damaged decent society.  George Washington fought the British and then refused to become the king, that was heroic.  Christopher Columbus set out in three tiny wooden ships, that couldn't possibly have made it to their destination, and found the Americas.  Thomas Jefferson laid out the case for real freedom, and that love child could have been fathered by any of about 54 Jefferson relatives living in VA at the time, there is no way to be sure.  Abe Lincoln was a tyrant in my book, he chose to free the slaves using the barrel of a gun.  Buying their freedom would have been cheaper.

[Vagabond]

It's odd that you say that. That's the exact reason I didn't use Andrew Jackson as an example of a man who did good things and yet killed so many. Trail of Tears. How do Americans react to him? They put him on a twenty dollar bill. It honestly does disgust me. You were saying?


On another note, I apologize for the joke I made earlier. It was in really bad taste.

Andy Jackson didn't support the trail of tears, he just didn't have much choice.  He could rally the states against South Carolina's threatened secession during the nullification crisis, but could he have rallied the states to stop Georgia from evicting the Cherokee's within it's territory?  That is an unlikely proposition at best.  The USSC actually ruled in the Indians favor that they could not be forced off of their private property, but Jackson realized that the federal government would not be able to enforce that ruling.  That is why President Jackson declared "The Chief Justice has made his ruling, now let us see him enforce it."

[Lanie]

Except birth control made unplanned pregnancies into "unwanted" pregnancies.  It was a scant step to from an unwanted child to allowing abortions for the mother of the unwanted child.

Except that it made the fantasy of every fourteen year old boy available.  Men can have sex without consequences because birth control frees them from that responsibility (or theoretically should).  After all if she didn't take care of birth control before hand, she can just have an abortion afterwards. 

Birth Control that Margaret Sanger supported and instituted has done far more damage to women than any other thing.  Her achievements are not heroic, she has actually damaged decent society.  George Washington fought the British and then refused to become the king, that was heroic.  Christopher Columbus set out in three tiny wooden ships, that couldn't possibly have made it to their destination, and found the Americas.  Thomas Jefferson laid out the case for real freedom, and that love child could have been fathered by any of about 54 Jefferson relatives living in VA at the time, there is no way to be sure.  Abe Lincoln was a tyrant in my book, he chose to free the slaves using the barrel of a gun.  Buying their freedom would have been cheaper.

Okay, I'm going to debate about some of this.

I think it's a far leap to say that birth control made kids unwanted. There were already unwanted kids. I think it's a far leap to say that men feel they don't have to be held responsibible now. Truth is today, a woman can get a DNA test on the man and have the law on him to pay child support (Now, there are pathetic ways to rig that system, but I won't go into that right now). Before birth control was legal and DNA was discovered, men only had to claim they were not the father and that the other woman was just a whore. Easy as pie.

[thundley4]

Okay, I'm going to debate about some of this.

I think it's a far leap to say that birth control made kids unwanted. There were already unwanted kids. I think it's a far leap to say that men feel they don't have to be held responsibible now. Truth is today, a woman can get a DNA test on the man and have the law on him to pay child support (Now, there are pathetic ways to rig that system, but I won't go into that right now). Before birth control was legal and DNA was discovered, men only had to claim they were not the father and that the other woman was just a whore. Easy as pie.

And men have no say if a woman wants to kill their child.  In several cases a husband has been proven to not be the biological father but has still been ordered to pay child support when divorcing the cheating wife.

[Lanie]

And men have no say if a woman wants to kill their child.  In several cases a husband has been proven to not be the biological father but has still been ordered to pay child support when divorcing the cheating wife.

I think in some states, the man the woman is married to is legally the father. I don't agree with that. It should be the biological father unless the biological father loses/signs away parental rights and the man married to the woman adopts.

[Vagabond]

Okay, I'm going to debate about some of this.

I think it's a far leap to say that birth control made kids unwanted. There were already unwanted kids. I think it's a far leap to say that men feel they don't have to be held responsibible now. Truth is today, a woman can get a DNA test on the man and have the law on him to pay child support (Now, there are pathetic ways to rig that system, but I won't go into that right now). Before birth control was legal and DNA was discovered, men only had to claim they were not the father and that the other woman was just a whore. Easy as pie.

It doesn't change the fact that a woman has myriad of options before during and after sexual intercourse.  A man has almost exactly one.Should she not take precautions and become pregnant, she has the option of an abortion.  Why should a man be on the hook for child support when the woman had the choice of whether or not to keep the kid.

(Yes, I am playing the devil's advocate.)