an open question for the board re : abortion

[Wretched Excess]

if a jihadist chick is pregnant, and we (or anyone else) blow her away, what is our moral status?

I have been chewing on that one for about 20 minutes.

[rich_t]

if a jihadist chick is pregnant, and we (or anyone else) blow her away, what is our moral status?

I have been chewing on that one for about 20 minutes.

Or any pregant women intent on killing others for what ever reason.

[Wretched Excess]

we are the party that protects the rights of the defenseless.  isn't killing a pregnant jihadist a contradiction?

[dutch508]

we are the party that protects the rights of the defenseless.  isn't killing a pregnant jihadist a contradiction?

After you've been there, you can argue with me on hypotheticals.

[Wretched Excess]

After you've been there, you can argue with me on hypotheticals.

my opposition to abortion isn't without qualifications.  life of the mother, & etc.

but this is a totally new thought. 

[Wretched Excess]

After you've been there, you can argue with me on hypotheticals.

and I would never call you a hypocrite.

[Schadenfreude]

The unintended killing of the unborn child was incidental and by definition wouldnt be the same as an elective abortion. It's analogous to collateral damage during the commission of a just war, which has it's own strict definition.

[dutch508]

my opposition to abortion isn't without qualifications.  life of the mother, & etc.

but this is a totally new thought. 

If the bitch is fighting against me, then she dies.

You see, WE, life is simple. They try to kill us, we kill them. It doesn't matter who, or what, they are. The die.


That way, we don't.

[Wretched Excess]

The unintended killing of the unborn child was incidental and by definition wouldnt be the same as an elective abortion. It's analogous to collateral damage during the commission of a just war, which has it's own strict definition.

excellent.  unintended.

that lends clarity to the discussion, Schad.

[Wretched Excess]

If the bitch is fighting against me, then she dies.

You see, WE, life is simple. They try to kill us, we kill them. It doesn't matter who, or what, they are. The die.


That way, we don't.

the baby inside her didn't have a say, and that is the whole point.

[Wretched Excess]

The unintended killing of the unborn child was incidental and by definition wouldnt be the same as an elective abortion. It's analogous to collateral damage during the commission of a just war, which has it's own strict definition.

crunching this through . . . so there is no sin in killing that particular unborn?  certainly not the same as ripping it apart during an abortion?

[dutch508]

the baby inside her didn't have a say, and that is the whole point.

That is your arguement? Seriously?

would you like to try again?

So, here we are, walking on patrol in Sadr City. It's 120 ****ing degress out and we are in full battle-rattle. Suddenly from a side street this ****ing girl jumps out with an RPG. She aims and pulls the trigger, but because she is just a kid and doesn't know, she didn't arm it. You cut her in half with a 240 before she can remember to arm the ****ing rocket.

You want me to hesitate because she might be knocked up? Hesitate and I could loose half my patrol.

After the shooting stops and you walk over to the body you can tell she was preggers.

Tell me how that makes a difference on the whole thing, WE?

Does that make me less dammed for killing than if it had been, say, a 20 year old man?

You think God gives a **** what we do to each other?

[Wretched Excess]

That is your arguement? Seriously?

would you like to try again?

So, here we are, walking on patrol in Sadr City. It's 120 ****ing degress out and we are in full battle-rattle. Suddenly from a side street this ****ing girl jumps out with an RPG. She aims and pulls the trigger, but because she is just a kid and doesn't know, she didn't arm it. You cut her in half with a 240 before she can remember to arm the ****ing rocket.

You want me to hesitate because she might be knocked up? Hesitate and I could loose half my patrol.

After the shooting stops and you walk over to the body you can tell she was preggers.

Tell me how that makes a difference on the whole thing, WE?

Does that make me less dammed for killing than if it had been, say, a 20 year old man?

You think God gives a **** what we do to each other?

you misunderstand me.  I believe you should blow her away.  it was just a post toniight that sent me back to my first principles.

[Wretched Excess]

That is your arguement? Seriously?

would you like to try again?

So, here we are, walking on patrol in Sadr City. It's 120 ****ing degress out and we are in full battle-rattle. Suddenly from a side street this ****ing girl jumps out with an RPG. She aims and pulls the trigger, but because she is just a kid and doesn't know, she didn't arm it. You cut her in half with a 240 before she can remember to arm the ****ing rocket.

You want me to hesitate because she might be knocked up? Hesitate and I could loose half my patrol.

After the shooting stops and you walk over to the body you can tell she was preggers.

Tell me how that makes a difference on the whole thing, WE?

Does that make me less dammed for killing than if it had been, say, a 20 year old man?

You think God gives a **** what we do to each other?

I think that God damns those that have an opportinity to be evil. 

I think that the unborn have no such opportinity, and are therefore innocent.

and i think that this is a great question.

[dutch508]

you misunderstand me.  I believe you should blow her away.  it was just a post toniight that sent me back to my first principles.

It doesn't matter who they are. If they are the enemy, they will be destroyed.

ANY compromise, and we loose.

THAT is the lesson of this election.

[Schadenfreude]

crunching this through . . . so there is no sin in killing that particular unborn?  certainly not the same as ripping it apart during an abortion?

The killing of innocent civilians is a very unfortunate and likely outcome of war. I am sure there are better philosophers/theologians than myself that can explain it. As dutch says, kill or be killed. Killing someone in self-defense (pregnant or otherwise) is justified because you are saving your own life.

[Wretched Excess]

It doesn't matter who they are. If they are the enemy, they will be destroyed.

ANY compromise, and we loose.

THAT is the lesson of this election.

the lesson of the last election is to not nominate a loser.

there is a difference between Osama Bin Laden, and Barack Obama, by the way.

[Wretched Excess]

The killing of innocent civilians is a very unfortunate and likely outcome of war. I am sure there are better philosophers/theologians than myself that can explain it. As dutch says, kill or be killed. Killing someone in self-defense (pregnant or otherwise) is justified because you are saving your own life.

ah, I see.  so the unfortunate killing of children is no different than killing the unborn.  as cold as that sounds, i believe you have it.

[dutch508]

The killing of innocent civilians is a very unfortunate and likely outcome of war. I am sure there are better philosophers/theologians than myself that can explain it. As dutch says, kill or be killed. Killing someone in self-defense (pregnant or otherwise) is justified because you are saving your own life.

You and I disagree, my love.

Killing you can only try to justify, if only to let you sleep better. There isn't anything you can do to make it justifiable.

Regardless of what you say to make yourself feel better, someone ends up dead.

goodnight, folks. Time for me to try to go to sleep.

 

[Wretched Excess]

You and I disagree, my love.

Killing you can only try to justify, if only to let you sleep better. There isn't anything you can do to make it justifiable.

Regardless of what you say to make yourself feel better, someone ends up dead.

goodnight, folks. Time for me to try to go to sleep.

 

as usual, your post has left me wondering what the **** you actually think.

[Wretched Excess]

The killing of innocent civilians is a very unfortunate and likely outcome of war. I am sure there are better philosophers/theologians than myself that can explain it. As dutch says, kill or be killed. Killing someone in self-defense (pregnant or otherwise) is justified because you are saving your own life.

that is also an application of natural law, by the way.

[Schadenfreude]

ah, I see.  so the unfortunate killing of children is no different than killing the unborn.  as cold as that sounds, i believe you have it.

The situation determines which subjective moral rule to apply. This is not the same as moral relativism because the same rule applies for the same situations.

So it really gets down to whether goal for killing the jihadist was ultimately to preserve life. If you can successfully argue that point, then the death of the unborn (while his life is valued) had to be ended to achieve the primary goal of preserving life. And I am talking in circles.

[Wretched Excess]

The situation determines which subjective moral rule to apply. This is not the same as moral relativism because the same rule applies for the same situations.

So it really gets down to whether goal for killing the jihadist was ultimately to preserve life. If you can successfully argue that point, then the death of the unborn (while his life is valued) had to be ended to achieve the primary goal of preserving life. And I am talking in circles.

you nailed it earlier, Schad. 

[Schadenfreude]

You and I disagree, my love.

Killing you can only try to justify, if only to let you sleep better. There isn't anything you can do to make it justifiable.

Regardless of what you say to make yourself feel better, someone ends up dead.

goodnight, folks. Time for me to try to go to sleep.

 

good night stinker.... Granted, someone ends up dead. Would you rather have the one standing be the suicide bomber who will subsequently blow themselves in a crowded square? I didn't think so. Neither does God by the way.

[JohnnyReb]

if a jihadist chick is pregnant, and we (or anyone else) blow her away, what is our moral status?

Alive and well.    ....and god will have mercy on the unborn. ...What's the problem with that?