Berkeley gives Marines the boot

[dandi]

Paint It Black (227 posts)      Thu Jan-31-08 02:56 PM
Original message
Berkeley gives Marines the boot
 About these advertisementsSource: Oakland Tribune

BERKELEY — Hey-hey, ho-ho, the Marines in Berkeley have got to go.

That's the message from the Berkeley City Council, which voted 8-1 to tell the U.S. Marines that its Shattuck Avenue recruiting station "is not welcome in the city, and if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome intruders."

In addition, the council voted to explore enforcing its law prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation against the Marines because of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. And it officially encouraged the women's peace group Code Pink to impede the work of the Marines in the city by protesting in front of the station.

In a separate item, the council voted 8-1 to give Code Pink a designated parking space in front of the recruiting station once a week for six months and a free sound permit for protesting once a week from noon to 4 p.m.

Read more: http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/ci_8127493

First, the typical DU troop love:

mike_c  (1000+ posts)       Thu Jan-31-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. good on them....

sfexpat2000  (1000+ posts)       Thu Jan-31-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. When we marched from Beach Impeach on the marina
 up into downtown and the recruiting station, we got many supportive honks and yells and very few opposing gestures. It's good to protest in Berkeley. lol

Paint It Black (227 posts)      Thu Jan-31-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. It's an illegal war.
 So the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan that are torturing civilians to find out where "Al Qaeda" is, the soldiers who are dropping white phosphorous on civilian targets in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions, the soldiers who are breaking into houses in the dead of night, hauling people away never to be seen again, they're "just following orders" so it's okay?

600,000 deaths in Iraq, but it's okay because we're just following orders?

We might not have concentration camps set up, and we might not be marching Iraqis into gas ovens - but they're still carrying out illegal orders. And if you have friends in the Marines, then they know that if they are given an illegal order, it is their DUTY to refuse that order.

You see, I too have served in the military, before this repugnant administration turned it into what it is today. We were taught that you don't follow orders blindly. There are many soldiers who have, in fact, refused to carry out these orders.

Suddenly, an interloper appears:

sailor65 (474 posts)       Thu Jan-31-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
27. And when they do knowingly do
 the things covered under US law, they are handled more toughly by the military than by any civilian court.

And he ain't suffering fools gladly:

sailor65 (474 posts)       Thu Jan-31-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. You obviously don't understand the UCMJ
 An "Illegal" order in the UN's eyes is not the same as an "Unlawful" order under our laws. It is not the choice of the soldier to determine whether a war is "Illegal" in the world's eyes. That is the reponsibility of the civvies running it. An "Unlawful" order for a soldier would be to shoot an unarmed prisoner, or shoot a known civilian. THAT is an unlawful order. When our soldiers do that, they are punished more harshly than you would be for raping and killing an 80 year old nun in the "City of Peace."


And if you think it is our soldiers at fault for the way things are over there, you are much dumber than you first appear. And kindly don' disgrace our service by attaching your name to it and pretending you know anything about real service.

Pastyface423 gets way out of his depth:

Pastiche423  (1000+ posts)      Thu Jan-31-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #45
54. Why don't you tell us all how the military
 has protected Berkeley. I would like to be educated.

And gets slammed....hard:

sailor65 (474 posts)       Thu Jan-31-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #54
64. The military protects Berkeley the same way 
 as every other part of the country. On our own soil, and on much of the other soil I've chewed, you are protected by its mere existence. We are here so that no one can ever come and kick down your door or drag you off for being whatever you are.

In other parts of the world, the military protects Berkeley because we make sure no one gets the chance to ever get that close to you. And I'm not talking about the "Fight them over there...." thing, I'm talking about the presence that makes sure the safety of America is maintained by extension, not just within some local fortress. You will have the privilage to make fun of us, criticize the President, carry signs, and everything else you get to do until the day you die BECAUSE we are out here. You will also never have the insight or experience to understand, so I'm well aware I won't be changing your mind. Although I still have to wonder if you know why there is no DU and no Code Pink in China or Iran (Or any other of a huge group of countries)

And when a big pile of mud falls on your head out there in Cali, check the clothes on the man or woman who digs you out and flies you to safety. Chances are pretty good it will be a uniform (And not a Police uniform). But that's just an added bonus, we do it for all our customers.

Since Orwell is so popular here, (Mainly because most DUers have no idea what he was really about), I'll quote him for you.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Although the sleeper usually has no idea......

And again:

sailor65 (474 posts)       Thu Jan-31-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. Yes, it is
 And someone elses said it far better than I could....

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill

At Berkeley, they enjoy the luxury of slamming the military because they have no idea what kind of commitment it takes to make sure they have that luxury.

And again:

sailor65 (474 posts)       Thu Jan-31-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. What resources exactly have 
 our military gone to "Take" from other lands?

And I hope you're at least clever enough to come up with something other than the tired old "Oil" argument, since the US has not gained financially in the slightest from Iraq's or even Kuwait's oil.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3164089

Something tells me sailor65 isn't long for Teh DU.

It's also a shame he has more sense than a lot of the people on the site we recently migrated from.
 




 
 





 
 
 
 
 

 

[Rebel]

**** you traitorous pieces of shit. 


You morons would be the first ones screaming for the Marines if your commie asses were ever invaded. I hope a Damn Earthquake takes out the whole ****ing city.

[Lord Undies]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3164089

This is the link to that Breaking News DUmmie thread.  Now i'm going back to read it.

[Lord Undies]

Pastiche423  (1000+ posts)        Thu Jan-31-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. You desperately need to read our history
   I would suggest you begin w/Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States.

   

sailor65 (474 posts)         Thu Jan-31-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. My history is quite complete
   including plenty of experience in the military you know so little about.

I'm familiar with Zinn. Some of his work is not bad, but like most historians, he doesn't get it all right either.

Doesn't change the question. I asked it of you, not Mr. Zinn. Are you able to answer it, or not?

   

Pastiche423  (1000+ posts)        Thu Jan-31-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. Oh, Mr. Zinn gets it alright
   It is you, I believe, that doesn't.

   
 

sailor65 (474 posts)         Thu Jan-31-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #58
67. I said he doesn't ALWAYS
   get it right, not that he never does.

And the question is still out there. Can you answer it, or are you going to continue to hide behind the cute if not terribly intelligent one-liners?

Do you even remember the question?

   

Lex Talionis (1 posts)        Thu Jan-31-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #67
103. First time, probably last time poster, has a question.
   I'm sure this will do me in here,but I've got to ask. Like one poster has asked. Why is there no sites or people like DU in Iran, China and lots of other places in this world. I have followed this site for years and have waited and waited, for it to be shut down by the government. And it hasn't. Why? Its a shame, to me anyways, that some of the most supposedly enlightened and intelligent people are blind to how human nature works. It must be nice to live in Berkley with all the peace, love and happiness that is there. Never having to worry that the Feds will kick your door down cause you call the prez a dickhead and can post it on the WWW. Other humans on this planet can't. Some of you on here, and I want call ya out cause its against the rules,  Have truly made this ol' Biker change some of his views about the world around him. Some of ya, not so much. For what its worth, I never had the guts to be in the military either. Peace.

sailor65 (474 posts)         Thu Jan-31-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. It's funny how
   every time someone steps up to point out the utter stupidity and ignorance found here regarding the military and Code Pink's propaganda about it, it gets labeled a "RW talking point."

   

Pastiche423  (1000+ posts)        Thu Jan-31-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. It's funny how you just proved my point

   
 

DS1  (1000+ posts)         Thu Jan-31-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
72. You don't have a point
   So I don't know what he's proving.

   

Teh_Rabble_Rouser (167 posts)         Thu Jan-31-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. I wholeheartedly support the council's decision.
   The problem is not that the military is fighting an unjustified war. The problem is that they use deceptive tactics (e.g. we'll pay for your college, we promise you won't go to combat, we promise...) to target the demographic who is least capable of saying no: teenagers who might have nowhere else to go except burger flipping, and who still cannot fully think for themselves. If a businessman employed such tactics, he would eventually be fined or jailed for fraud. Why should the people who supposedly defend the country not be like that?

It's a fun thread with Sailor Speaking Truth to Boggled Minds.
   

[dandi]

It's a fun thread with Sailor Speaking Truth to Boggled Minds.

You notice The Bug Man and SexlessPat haven't opened their traps again?  I don't think they want a piece of this one.

[djones520]

Someone invite Sailor65 over here.  Thats a Democrat that I'd stand by anyday.

[mamacags]

Dear Terrorists,
    Next time you attack us please feel free to do so in Berkeley.  You will have no resistance what so ever.  In fact they will probably greet your suicide bombers with flowers, weed, and STDs.   Please do as you wish because none of the rest of the world gives a rat's ass about that pathetic loser town. 
                                         Hugs and kisses, Melinda

[Rebel]

Someone invite Sailor65 over here.  Thats a Democrat that I'd stand by anyday.

...and grab OMC while you're at it.

[Lord Undies]

......and away we go......

tidy_bowl  (56 posts)        Thu Jan-31-08 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
102. Worth repeating....
   It is the soldier, not the reporter,
Who has given us the freedom of the press.

It is the soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

It is the soldier
Who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag
Who allows the protester to burn the flag.

by Father Denis Edward O'Brien

   
 

14thColony  (83 posts)        Thu Jan-31-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #102
105. It was the Constitution
   that gave us those freedoms. Period. A Constitution written by men who had witnessed the excesses of a soldiery that no longer identified with the citizenry. Men who, by the way, felt very strongly that a standing army was anathema to democracy, and by and large did not support us having one. This was the distrustful view of a standing army that gave us the Third Amendment, invested sole power over the Army and Navy to the People (Congress), and later brought forth the Posse Comitatus Act.

^^^ Have you ever read anything more ridiculously stupid and purposefully ignorant in your life? 
   
 

mcscajun   (1000+ posts)         Thu Jan-31-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
106. Locking.
   This turned into a flamefest.

TRANSLATION:  "You DUmbasses are looking pretty stupid here, so we best not let you do anymore damage to youselves."

[TheSarge]

**** you traitorous pieces of shit. 


You morons would be the first ones screaming for the Marines if your commie asses were ever invaded. I hope a Damn Earthquake takes out the whole ******* city.

How about we just pull all military out of NorCal and let the bad guys know that the "gate" is wide open.

They don't want us...why should we even pretend anymore?

[Duke Nukum]

Teh_Rabble_Rouser (167 posts)         Thu Jan-31-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. I wholeheartedly support the council's decision.
   The problem is not that the military is fighting an unjustified war. The problem is that they use deceptive tactics (e.g. we'll pay for your college, we promise you won't go to combat, we promise...) to target the demographic who is least capable of saying no: teenagers who might have nowhere else to go except burger flipping, and who still cannot fully think for themselves. If a businessman employed such tactics, he would eventually be fined or jailed for fraud. Why should the people who supposedly defend the country not be like that?

So this person would prefer conscription?

Public schools and liberal universities target "teenagers who cannot fully think for themselves yet" and they are never fined or jailed for fraud either.

DUmmie Land and The Democrat Party target adults who cannot fully think for themselves, come to think of it.  I wonder if Rabble Rouser ever thought of that?

[Rebel]

How about we just pull all military out of NorCal and let the bad guys know that the "gate" is wide open.

They don't want us...why should we even pretend anymore?

Yeah, and right across the bay in Oakland they didn't allow returning troops to use the latrine OR restaurant facilities. They could only deboard on the tarmac and stretch their legs. If they landed in Atlanta, they would have had drinks bought for'em.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080131/NATION/981079835/1002/NATION

Damn I hate ****ing California. **** OFF AND DIE! 

You MAKE time for our returning troops, you mother****ers. 

[Rebel]

Public schools and liberal universities target "teenagers who cannot fully think for themselves yet" and they are never fined or jailed for fraud either.

If recruiters targeted people that couldn't think for themselves it would be stock-full of ****ing DUmbasses.

[Chris_]

Teh_Rabble_Rouser (167 posts)         Thu Jan-31-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. I wholeheartedly support the council's decision.
   The problem is not that the military is fighting an unjustified war. The problem is that they use deceptive tactics (e.g. we'll pay for your college, we promise you won't go to combat, we promise...) to target the demographic who is least capable of saying no: teenagers who might have nowhere else to go except burger flipping, and who still cannot fully think for themselves. If a businessman employed such tactics, he would eventually be fined or jailed for fraud. Why should the people who supposedly defend the country not be like that?

Those kinds of "deceptive tactics" (although what's so deceptive of offering to pay for someone's college education if they serve their country ESPECIALLY IF THEY KNOW GOING IN THEY HAVE TO SERVE FIRST) are used by other branches, but the Marines not so much. The Marines give incentives to those who reenlist and those who have their deployment extended. When they DO give incentives it's usually just a few thousand dollars. The Marines don't say "look what we can do for you", rather it's "do you have what it takes to be a Marine". Obviously the DUmmies have no idea what they're talking about. How many recruits could they possibly get in Berkeley anyway?

Cindie

[Duke Nukum]

Teh_Rabble_Rouser (167 posts)         Thu Jan-31-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. I wholeheartedly support the council's decision.
   The problem is not that the military is fighting an unjustified war. The problem is that they use deceptive tactics (e.g. we'll pay for your college, we promise you won't go to combat, we promise...) to target the demographic who is least capable of saying no: teenagers who might have nowhere else to go except burger flipping, and who still cannot fully think for themselves. If a businessman employed such tactics, he would eventually be fined or jailed for fraud. Why should the people who supposedly defend the country not be like that?

Those kinds of "deceptive tactics" (although what's so deceptive of offering to pay for someone's college education if they serve their country ESPECIALLY IF THEY KNOW GOING IN THEY HAVE TO SERVE FIRST) are used by other branches, but the Marines not so much. The Marines give incentives to those who reenlist and those who have their deployment extended. When they DO give incentives it's usually just a few thousand dollars. The Marines don't say "look what we can do for you", rather it's "do you have what it takes to be a Marine". Obviously the DUmmies have no idea what they're talking about. How many recruits could they possibly get in Berkeley anyway?

Cindie

For some people, the only way out of an intellectual void like Berkeley is to enlist.  Shutting down a recruiting station is the DUmmie equivalent to the Berlin Wall.  Or, I should say "primative" I guess

[Ptarmigan]

mike_c  (1000+ posts)       Thu Jan-31-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. good on them....

He strikes again as usual. 

[Chris_]

Public schools and liberal universities target "teenagers who cannot fully think for themselves yet" and they are never fined or jailed for fraud either.

If recruiters targeted people that couldn't think for themselves it would be stock-full of ****ing DUmbasses.

I love these kinds of "arguments."  They demonstrate the contempt they have for "people who can't think for themselves."  Thank GOD we have liberals who can think for them.
 

[TheSarge]

I'm very thankful I haven't had to wade through the cesspool of Libtards in NorCal when Ive come back from overseas.

When I came back on my two week R&R from Iraq...we had a guy from Chicago buy all 105 of us waiting in the terminal cheeseburgers fries and drinks form McDonalds...and in Dallas the employees clapped and said thank you as we walked by.


F*** California.

[Happy Fun Ball]

Genesis 19 comes to mind.

[Mary Ann]

the demographic who is least capable of saying no: teenagers who might have nowhere else to go except burger flipping, and who still cannot fully think for themselves.

But, girls even younger than that are considered by these morons to be perfectly capable of deciding to have an abortion.

[NHSparky]

Sadly, the stupidity and hatred isn't confined to DU...

http://www.seacoastconnects.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4681

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

Damn! I saw this too late.I was gonna pm freep and see if he wanted to go over there and cause a ruckus with me Leave it to the fun governor mods over there to spoil the party

[Rebel]

the demographic who is least capable of saying no: teenagers who might have nowhere else to go except burger flipping, and who still cannot fully think for themselves.

But, girls even younger than that are considered by these morons to be perfectly capable of deciding to have an abortion.

[Flame]

the demographic who is least capable of saying no: teenagers who might have nowhere else to go except burger flipping, and who still cannot fully think for themselves.

But, girls even younger than that are considered by these morons to be perfectly capable of deciding to have an abortion.

exactly...they believe 18 yr olds aren't able to think for themselves when it comes to military service, but when it comes to sex and all it involves, they believe a 12 yr old is capable of adult decisions.