http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=230x3396Oh my.
It's an old bonfire, now extinguished; I thought it was a new bonfire at first, and did all this work copying-and-pasting it.
Sorry. I'll try to not let it happen again, bringing an old bonfire over here, but as I had already copied-and-pasted it, no need to throw it away.
Bill McBlueState (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 02:59 PM
Original message
Will grocery-store bag fees be a problem for poor people?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
I totally understand the need to reduce waste from shopping bags. But proposals like the one in LA (see the linked thread) force people to either (1) shell out at least a few dollars' worth of quarters every month or (2) buy an array of reusable bags. Obviously this will be harder for some people than for others.
I'm on a really tight budget right now, and while I could probably *manage* to adjust to a ban on free grocery bags, it certainly wouldn't make things any easier.
Am I nuts for thinking there could be a way to maintain the environmental benefits of a bag ban without it becoming yet another way to nickle and dime poor people?
Eric J in MN (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. I bring the same double-paper bags to the supermarket again and again...
...and they hold up fine.
movonne (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. buying cloth bags works well...they are cheap and it is a one time buy...we will have to change our ways of living or parish...
Hmmm; "parish."
gateley (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. A lot of cities are giving out free reusable shopping bags.
Bill McBlueState (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. That's the way to do it...
Hopefully they aren't making people supply a stack of paperwork to prove they need the free bags, which I could see happening. It would be pretty easy to give a supply to the local WIC office to distribute.
gateley (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. That would be perfect - giving it to the local WIC office.
I'm guessing there will be big promotions, too, so companies may be handing out bags just so you'll carry their advertising.
I think it will all work out, and we need to knock it off disposable bags.
Next: Plastic bottles!
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. What are you going to do about the IMMENSE amount of plastic wrapping that is thrown out by companies???
It amounts to much more.
Or is it just much more fun to target people who can't afford it?
Bill McBlueState (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-24-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Hey, we could use you on the original thread
People are saying things like, "If you are in government support programs, then feel lucky."
...and other posts in which some DUers show us precisely how much empathy they have for the poor.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-24-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Thanks, Bill, for caring and understanding!
I've come to the point of giving up on DU with regard to poverty.
It has become VERY CONSERVATIVE here, and people are often HATEFUL towards poor people... even more so than REAL conservatives!!
I appreciate your concern, I really do!
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Which helps homeless people....how????
When you don't even have a place to store NECESSARY items, where in hell are you going to store bags????
I could go on.
YOU think it's a great idea, because it's not a problem for YOU.
It's definitely time for O for the P..... Preferential Option For The Poor.
salvorhardin (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't think it's a huge burden
After all, stores in my area sell them for as little as $1 and they hold more than the average plastic or paper bag. However, if one wanted to help out poorer people the city could subsidize the cost of reusable bags by buying a large number of bags and reselling them to people for less than cost. It would cost taxpayers more up front, but the cost of reduced trash hauling alone should make up for it.
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. How poor are you? Are you homeless?
YOY (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. Seeing as how the reusable ones cost 1$ at Ikea or around 3$ at the grocery store and both last forever for all intended purposes.
No.
The rising cost of food though is a different kettle of fish....pun intended.
rawtribe (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. If you live near a Whole Foods
They sell reusable bags for 99 cents.
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Do you know many poor people who shop at Whole Foods?
Could you all TRY to think about poor people?
rawtribe (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-24-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Walk in buy a bag or two
walk out.
Why can [sic; obviously means "can't"] poor people do that?
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-24-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Make a special trip for bags that don't last?
"Why can poor people do that?"
I don't know why they can..... That doesn't make sense.
You seem to be the one with all the answers, so you tell US.
rawtribe (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-24-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. You don't want answers.
I'd say have a nice day. Some how I think you'd find a reason not to.
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-26-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Nobody asked you for "answers". What I'm asking you to do is to understand that making life harder for poor people, and punishing THEM isn't going to save the earth.
rawtribe (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Target's stylish (and affordable!) reusable bag
http://www.greendaily.com/2008/01/23/targets-stylish-an... /
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-26-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I'm sure that will be of GREAT INTEREST to homeless people.
If you might just for a minute, stop thinking about MIDDLE CLASS wants and desires and think about how PUNISHING POOR PEOPLE isn't helping anything, we could then actually have a constructive dialogue.
Warpy (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. YES!!
I use canvas and string bags, but poor folks can't afford that initial outlay and will get dinged every time they shop. The plastic bags in use now are too flimsy to use more than two or three times, even doubled.
I would prefer to see the carrot approach extended, rather than the stick, with the payback for using reusable bags increased until the payback on purchasing a reusable bag drops to a few weeks or months rather than years.
Poor folks are already paying for those bags because they're figured into the store overhead that determines the store markup. Charging them extra just adds insult to injury.
And I absolutely loathe plastic bags, especially when they're flapping up in my trees for years before they finally shred beyond recognition.
I'm with the warped primitive; those plastic grocery bags should be banned.
Better to stick with paper, which is stronger and more biodegradable.
hlthe2b (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm concerned about having bags for the doggies...seriously
Not meaning to be flip, but the move away from having any plastic bags available to recycle for this purpose will cause havoc for those who barely comply with basic "pooper scooping" etiquette... If they are expected to purchase special bags for the purpose, I'm guessing much compliance will go by the wayside. I will do the right thing, even if I have to special order bags, but it will be a real change and not one that many will embrace.
MountainLaurel (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-27-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. We use cheap Ziploc sandwich baggies
At a place like Costco, you can get a few hundred for less than $10. And they're big enough to handle even whatever our retriever can dish out, so to speak.
ribofunk (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. It Will be a Slight Problem
another cost will be purchasing plastic trash bags for anyone who uses t-shirt bags for that purpose now. As well as the multiple "one-time" purchases of permanent bags that will eventually pile up when people do not happen to have their bags with them.
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-23-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. Of course it's a problem.
This is another one of those "liberal" ideas that flies before considering how it affects those who can least afford it.
There will be all kinds of rationalizations, but the fact is, this is a penalty on consumers that does very little to attack the actual problem, and is thought of and approved by those who don't stop to think about others besides themselves and their own situations.
Then they wonder why they get the title of "Elitist".
It's very sad.
And a main reason why the Dems--long the party of poor folk---is rapidly losing our votes.
maryf (571 posts) Wed Jul-23-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Absolutely
Its like the recycle scam, takes more energy to recycle than its worth. Its basically just a way for people to feel good about what they've done today and keep them busy wasting water washing cans and bottles.
There is a problem with plastic, but as you say the corporations with there huge pallets wrapped ten times use much more without accountability. And to mandate folks having to pay for the plastic bags hurts no one but the poor and does very little if anything about the problem.
Please buy the reusable bags, but please don't penalize those who really can't afford the funds or space.
And I hope someone else has the courtesy to respond to you, Bobbolink, I think you make great sense.
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-27-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. We're outshouted, Mary.
There is, clearly, either no understanding of or no concern for poor people.
usnret88 (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-24-08 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
20. How about carrying a pillow cover to transport purchases?
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-27-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
28. Of course it's a problem. The issue is... does it matter to "progressives"?
Clearly, not.
Uh, I just thought of something.
Voting's in progress right now, for the Top Ten DUmmies of 2008.
The bobbling primitive's not on my list--which is full--but others with shorter lists might wish to vote for her, themselves.
