Union Card-Check

[Schadenfreude]

It just sounds like a horrible precedent. What possible reason do the unions have to take away the secret ballot if not to coerce employees?

[RightCoast]

None.

[Schadenfreude]

None.

That's what I thought. What a crock of crap.

[Zeus]

I think it is so they don't accidently break the wrong persons leg, or fire bomb the wrong car . Cuts down on colateral damage.

[Schadenfreude]

I think it is so they don't accidently break the wrong persons leg, or fire bomb the wrong car . Cuts down on colateral damage.

Takes the guesswork out of it. 

[Schadenfreude]

It's a preemptive unionization attempt, to avoid the illegal coercing methods that companies systematically go through just before a secret ballot vote. 

I must admit, I need to understand this whole process a bit better than I do now.

[Thor]

Schadie, just find a NWA employee and get the info from them......IAM is a pretty strong union and tries to do things right

[Chris_]

[Woody]

It's a preemptive unionization attempt, to avoid the illegal coercing methods that companies systematically go through just before a secret ballot vote. 

Can you give some details?  If these companies are already doing something illegal, why do we need to pass another law against it?

[Woody]

I could see trying to preserve a level playing field, but I can't see anything justifying an open vote, period. 

That said, I'm pretty anti-union in most cases.  Unions are justifiable only when the labor market has a monopsony.  (A monopsony is the inverse of a monopoly - a large buyer dominates the market.  In labor terms, it would represent a "company town" or single major employer.)

This is all my opinion; yours may well vary.

[AllosaursRus]

It's a preemptive unionization attempt, to avoid the illegal coercing methods that companies systematically go through just before a secret ballot vote. 

Of course you have PROOF of this of course!

I work for a major retail outfit part time, the only thing they do to keep the union out, is pay us close to union scale and give us benefits. I was unaware that was illegal.

The union has tried several times to get an "inroad" to the associates I work with. All we do is look at the auto industry and figure we don't need to have a union dictating how we spend our political contibutions.

With this Card Check BS, they would single out those of us who think they are parasites with OUR money!!!!!!!

[Crazy Horse]

IAM is a pretty strong union and tries to do things right

My ass they try to do the right thing.  They are no different than the teamsters, UAW....etc. I see them everyday at work again and I see how they protect the slime of the earth................Hell most of the slime are stewards. Even people I work with that used to be in the union, still act like they are. The boss says anything that they see as an infringment they spend the next three days researching it (and that's all they do) trying to find where the boss went wrong. Case in point..............once every quarter people give blood and are allowed "Up to 4 hours of admin leave. Well for the past whatever they have been getting the 4 admin leave and taking 4 sick/annual. Well the boss said that he was only going to give two hours..............still generous...........you would have thought they all walked in on their wife running a train. My god the drama..............."this is bullshit, damn management always screwing us over......blah, blah, blah, blah. remember that almost all of these people do enough work to clock 8 hours, regardless how long it takes and just kick back for the next 4+ hours doing nothing............yet take away something that really shouldn't have been there in the first place.............

Don't get me going....................open votes equal bovine defecation 
 
Signed,
Former IAMAW member

[Wineslob]

My ass they try to do the right thing.  They are no different than the teamsters, UAW....etc. I see them everyday at work again and I see how they protect the slime of the earth................Hell most of the slime are stewards. Even people I work with that used to be in the union, still act like they are. The boss says anything that they see as an infringment they spend the next three days researching it (and that's all they do) trying to find where the boss went wrong. Case in point..............once every quarter people give blood and are allowed "Up to 4 hours of admin leave. Well for the past whatever they have been getting the 4 admin leave and taking 4 sick/annual. Well the boss said that he was only going to give two hours..............still generous...........you would have thought they all walked in on their wife running a train. My god the drama..............."this is bullshit, damn management always screwing us over......blah, blah, blah, blah. remember that almost all of these people do enough work to clock 8 hours, regardless how long it takes and just kick back for the next 4+ hours doing nothing............yet take away something that really shouldn't have been there in the first place.............

Don't get me going....................open votes equal bovine defecation 
 
Signed,
Former IAMAW member

 

[Crazy Horse]

Come on mate, while not knowing the given industry you're in.  Having people who can finish eight hours worth of work in less time is generally a good thing.  Depending on the type of work, it may very well be essentially impossible to assign another job to do in their given eight hours and location.  Heck, in the production world one can even be punished for producing more units than alloted for that time span.
People are people... shrugs...

Nothing but excuses.

I remember something real big in our CBA.....................the "NO STRIKE" part..................seems people really hold to that. Matter of fact it said that we could be terminated for striking....................never see that happening.

Please explain how a person who exceeds their goal in a time span is punished..................I have an idea, but it's not union friendly nor friendly to worker who doesn't have drive and initiative. I mean I work in a production/manufacturing world.................I have never seen that a problem. Usually people who can do that are rewarded for their initiative and hardwork.

Last Wednesday..............you know the day before Thanksgiving everyone was just sitting around bullshitting................................it was my last day on dayshift................I continued to work. Everyone of the current and former Union members asked why I kept working. I am criticized by them for being hardworking. They make jokes about it constantly. Yet I continue on.......................maybe it wouldn't bother me so much if we didn't have co-op's and apprentices that need to learn what a good work ethic is, not the "I've got my eight for the day" routine.

This behavior is taught and learned...............it's not natural. Maybe you are in a good Union...........maybe it's a small Union that cares about staying in buisness............................................the IAM isn't in my opinion and I say that as a former member and current employee who works with approx. 2,000 of their members and approx 1,000 of the former members.

[Crazy Horse]

We are both pointing out the same thing................Piss poor management in all forms, from a lead to a branch head.

I do take their comments as a badge of honor...................

[rich_t]

From where I sit... Having never been in a union...

It seems to me, that for the most part many, if not most, unions have outlived their usefulness.

[NHSparky]

Let's put it this way--why should an able-bodied person NOT get to work simply because it's not his/her "turn" yet?  Such is life if you're not in a "right to work" state and in a union.

As the contractors we get during outages say, "IBEW stans for 'I'm Broke Every Winter.'"

[rich_t]

There is no "right" to work.  Employment is NOT a guarantee in life. 

[NHSparky]

There is no "right" to work.  Employment is NOT a guarantee in life. 

Uh, do you even UNDERSTAND the concept of "right to work" laws?  Or what happens if you're a union employee in a state that ISN'T a right to work state?  Because if you did, you'd delete that post and apologize for not thinking before posting.

http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law

[NHSparky]

A union hall allows the creation of skilled trade workforces which these companies and organizations can draw upon and are incapable themselves of creating.

Judging by the contractors we got from the IBEW Local last outage, I call bullshit on that.  Try running a turbine outage when you need millwrights and they give you about 80 percent carpenters.  Up here, it's just a way to get a shitload of money (dues) off people who really could be making better money on their own by not being contstrained by rules which tell them when they can and cannot work, or where, etc... 

[rich_t]

Uh, do you even UNDERSTAND the concept of "right to work" laws?  Or what happens if you're a union employee in a state that ISN'T a right to work state?  Because if you did, you'd delete that post and apologize for not thinking before posting.

Umm... I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on T.V.  I posted "right" to work, instead of "right to work" for a reason.

I was being a smart ass.

But in all seriousness, I would like to hear a reasonable explanation of "right to work" laws.

[rich_t]

Major corporations routinely disregard OSHA guidelines, labor laws, internal policies, and contractual agreements intentionally.  It may not always be some evil plot orchestrated by a tyrannical owner, but tends to generally be a morally astray middle manager who's looking out for his personal fiefdom and performance bonuses or an incompetent first line supervisor.  Individuals tend to not be capable of standing up for their rights, without the special legal provisions afforded their union reps.  With rare exception, and generally only in the most extraordinary incidents, can resolution be fought for in the courts... or even be worthwhile too...

Most professionals whether they be lawyers or doctors tend to band together, creating organizations that regulate themselves and lobby for their members interests.  Why shouldn't skilled trade members?

Perhaps most beneficial to society at large, is that Union Halls tend to serve a member owned talent agency.  With the cyclical nature of many construction and industrial projects, and the round robin of national contractors bidding on given projects.  A union hall allows the creation of skilled trade workforces which these companies and organizations can draw upon and are incapable themselves of creating.  While affording it's members a continual coverage of health care and accrued credits towards vacation and pensions; regardless that they may have worked for a dozen different contractors during a given year.  

 

I have worked in the telecommunications arena for almost all of my adult life.  I have managed to do pretty well for myself without Union assitance.

[NHSparky]

Umm... I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on T.V.  I posted "right" to work, instead of "right to work" for a reason.

I was being a smart ass.

But in all seriousness, I would like to hear a reasonable explanation of "right to work" laws.

At the risk of being accused of being lazy, the wiki entry which I linked is a good starting point.

[rich_t]

At the risk of being accused of being lazy, the wiki entry which I linked is a good starting point.

I don't trust Wiki, but I did look at the link.

I learned a thing or two.


Oh and on a side note...  Those links weren't in your original post.

[NHSparky]

Uh, excusethe****outtamedoyouevenknowwhatthe****youjustsaid?

Vonne--UNIONS ARE USELESS.  Get that through your skull.  I've been in one or another pretty much since I left the Navy, and all they've ever done for me is drain my paycheck.

And NO, not "almost all locals have provisions".  A great many of them don't.  Don't believe me?  Come on up and apply for a Local 480 card and see how long it is before YOU get to work.  When the company asks the local for a specified number of workers, they get the first ones on the list.  NO cherry-picking, regardless of previous qualifications.  The only people who "get ahead" and get to do more of these are the ones who work for the contractor companies (i.e., "body shops") like Eaton and TRC.

So take your high school cheerleader commentary and shove it up your ass, Vonne.  I know what I see.  I know what IS.  I don't need your unionized bullshit trying to blow unionized sunshine up my ass and trying to tell me it's raining when you're trying to piss on my back.