Author Topic: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC  (Read 2322 times)

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Offline dutch508

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Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« on: December 12, 2016, 04:04:13 PM »
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B2G (7,328 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512653580

Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC,

but zero proof they hacked the actual vote, is there anything that really can be done about Trump assuming office next month?

So- think this through... IF the ruskies hacked the DNC and released information to the American people that Hillary and the DNC were lying to the American people and rigging a primary election for president against the voting wishes of the people then there is nothing legal we can do to charge hillary and the DNC for those crimes?

hmmm...

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FBaggins (15,909 posts)
2. Is there even a plausible claim that they hacked the vote?

So far all I've seen is what was already claimed prior to the election (that the wikileaks source was Russia).

Nope. Some anon source from a suspect left wing news blog... I'm sure it's legit.

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B2G (7,328 posts)
11. Hacking the DNC and Podesta doesn't mean the results were inaccurate

It mean it influence people's thinking, not tampered with how they voted.

By letting the American people see the truth of the Clintons and the DNC they in turn voted from Trump. I can see why the left is wanting to overthrow the country now!  :rotf:

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B2G (7,328 posts)
6. Josh Earnest alread said in his presser today

that they may never release any proof they have of a Russian hacking.

WFT? Why?

maybe because there isn't any.

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4139 (954 posts)
7. Actually they haven't presented proof that Russia hacked the DNC...they are convinced that Russia did it no proof yet.

yup.

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Star Member LisaM (18,365 posts)
10. I think the issue is more what happened in response - by elected officials and the FBI.

I don't think they needed to hack anything. They wanted to create chaos and to disrupt the election process. The polls were generally running close, and a lot of voters were undecided. It wouldn't have taken much.

I'm more concerned that there was collusion with a candidate and a political party, and the FBI - and that people in the U.S. Senate, a once-venerable institution, knowingly sat on the information to influence results.

Actual hacking isn't even necessary if you can find enough other ways to depress or influence the vote.

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Proud Liberal Dem (14,790 posts)
13. I would like to know that as well

If it is true that Russians played a role in hacking/disseminating DNC e-mails and that it affected the election results, then what? That's the part I'm a little fuzzy on. I'd like to think that this would be grounds for a "re-vote," however since there's no mechanism AFAIK for this to occur, then I'm not sure that anything can necessarily be done to stop Trump's inauguration to the Presidency. Neither Lindsey Graham, John McCain, nor any other Republican would support a new election or replacement of Trump as POTUS. We are stuck with Trump for at least the next four years and we know that he's not losing any sleep over any of this- to the extent that he even believes that there's anything here. I always felt that, after the disputed election in 2000, George W. Bush should've formed more of a "unity government" and/or governed in a more bipartisanship manner but, of course, that didn't happen and I would expect it to happen even less under Trump. And, again, there won't really be any Republicans AFAIK whom would argue for it either. The best that we can probably hope for is that it lessens the legitimacy of Trump's win in the public eye and helps boost our chances of replacing him in four years (and a whole host of Republicans in two).

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Star Member hamsterjill (7,834 posts)
15. Overturning the election would be nice, but that is not my intent by hoping for a full investigation

I want a full and complete investigation. I'm not sure what, if anything, will actually be found, and I'm certainly not confident that something found may necessarily be made public.

But there is something there. There is simply too much smoke for there not to be some kind of fire.

It's important to me, as an American citizen, that we all feel that our votes are counted properly.

If anything that is unearthed in the investigation were to shed Trump-ass in a bad light, well, let's just say I wouldn't be crying any tears.


oh for ****s sake. You people don't care about the country. If you did you'd have been screaming about government corruption and cover-ups during the entire Hillary SoS debacle. Benghazi ring a bell?

The only reason you want oversight now is to delegitimize Trump's win.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2016, 05:22:01 PM »
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Star Member hamsterjill (7,834 posts)
15. Overturning the election would be nice, but that is not my intent by hoping for a full investigation

I want a full and complete investigation. I'm not sure what, if anything, will actually be found, and I'm certainly not confident that something found may necessarily be made public.

But there is something there. There is simply too much smoke for there not to be some kind of fire...

So tell me, how do you feel about all those "Clinton trail of bodies/Bill the rapist" stories?

 :rotf:
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Offline Patriot Guard Rider

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2016, 05:35:16 PM »
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But there is something there. There is simply too much smoke for there not to be some kind of fire.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Pickles Von Cankles say, during one of the debates regarding one of her scandals, "There's a lot of smoke, but no fire."?
Liberals disgust me. (Now I don't have to remember to put it on each post).

Because only the left goes searching for that which is not there in a desperate attempt to be offended about something.

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Offline Karin

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2016, 05:41:34 PM »
Correct, she said that. 

Where is that insect ladyee?  She was up all friggin night, ranting and raving and starting thread after thread, so tiresome.  Julian Assange said "it wasn't the Russians.  Period."  They didn't hack the voting record, whoever hacked, hacked the infamous Podesta emails, which portrayed Dems as sleazy as hell liars.  Among other things.  There is no treason here.

Now please find another shiny object and give us some entertainment.   :rant:

Offline DUmpstruck

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2016, 05:49:09 PM »
I love the smell of DUmmie tears.  It smells like...

Victory!!!

Offline Patriot Guard Rider

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2016, 06:36:40 PM »
Correct, she said that. 

Where is that insect ladyee?  She was up all friggin night, ranting and raving and starting thread after thread, so tiresome.  Julian Assange said "it wasn't the Russians.  Period."  They didn't hack the voting record, whoever hacked, hacked the infamous Podesta emails, which portrayed Dems as sleazy as hell liars.  Among other things.  There is no treason here.

Now please find another shiny object and give us some entertainment.   :rant:

The leak was the dem staffer that was shot (without a robbery as I recall), in D.C. at about 2 a.m.
Liberals disgust me. (Now I don't have to remember to put it on each post).

Because only the left goes searching for that which is not there in a desperate attempt to be offended about something.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

Many people do not see evil until the gas is flowing into the chamber. That is why they get on the trains in the first place.

Offline fatboy

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2016, 06:49:14 PM »
It is absurd on 10 levels to maintain the theory that the Russians wanted Trump to win because they fear the Iron Fist of Hillary.

  :mental:
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Offline dutch508

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2016, 08:04:06 PM »
Here are just ten of the reasons the “Russian hacking” story is a sham — a left-wing twist on the red-baiting McCarthyism of the 1950s.

1. There is actually no new information leading the CIA to its conclusion. The New York Times reports: “The C.I.A.’s conclusion does not appear to be the product of specific new intelligence obtained since the election, several American officials, including some who had read the agency’s briefing, said on Sunday. Rather, it was an analysis of what many believe is overwhelming circumstantial evidence — evidence that others feel does not support firm judgments — that the Russians put a thumb on the scale for Mr. Trump, and got their desired outcome.” In other words, someone only decided after Trump won that the accusation was worth making.

2. The “evidence” that the CIA has gathered is inconclusive. The FBI also disagrees with some of the CIA’s conclusions about Russia’s motives. “While lawmakers were seemingly united on the need to present a strong bipartisan response, the FBI and CIA gave lawmakers differing accounts on Russia’s motives, according to The Post,” The Hill reported on Sunday.

3. The CIA is not making public claims that Russia hacked the election. Several CIA veterans, in fact, have urged caution about the leaked reports. As Newsweek reports: “‘I am not saying that I don’t think Russia did this,’ Nada Bakos, a top former CIA counterterrorism officer tells Newsweek, in a typical comment. ‘My main concern is that we will rush to judgment. The analysis needs to be cohesive and done the right way.'” Thus far there is not even a clear idea what the CIA’s conclusions are.

4. Despite left-wing “fake news,” there is no evidence Russian hackers actually distorted the voting process. The most that the CIA is alleging is that the Russians may have helped hack of the Democratic National Committee emails, as well as (possibly) the emails of Hillary Clinton campaign chaiman John Podesta. There is zero evidence Russian hackers messed with voting. Ironically, Green Party candidate Jill Stein’s recount has eliminated any doubt about the integrity of the results.

5. The Obama administration has a history of manipulating intelligence for political gain. The most under-reported scandal of Obama’s presidency was the CENTCOM scandal, in which it emerged that “senior U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM) leaders manipulated intelligence assessments in 2014 and 2015 to make it appear that President Barack Obama is winning the war against the Islamic State (ISIS/ISIL).” There is even more reason to doubt the truth of a selective leak about the election.

6. Julian Assange and Wikileaks have vigorously denied that the Russians were involved in Wikileaks’ disclosures. Of the Democratic National Committee emails, Assange said: “That is the circumstantial evidence that some Russian, or someone who wanted to make them look like a Russian, was involved, with these other media organisations. That is not the case for the material that we released.” Assange made similar denials about the Podesta email leaks later in the election.

7. The fact that the Russians might constantly be trying to hack U.S. systems, and might even specifically have targeted the election, does not prove that they succeeded. Nor does it prove that they tipped the election to Trump even if they had some effect. As pollster Frank Luntz tweeted: “Did Russia also hack Hillary’s campaign calendar and delete all her stops in rural Wisconsin, Penn., and Michigan?” Hillary Clinton lost the election for reasons entirely of her own making.

8. Foreign interference in elections is nothing new — and the Obama administration is a prime culprit. In 2015, the Obama administration made a strenuous and not-terribly-well-hidden effort to swing the Israeli elections toward the opposition and away from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The State Department gave $300,000 to a “pro-peace” Israeli group, which then paid political activists whose goal was to unseat Netanyahu. In 1984, the late Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) actually asked for Soviet help. Russian efforts to intervene would be bad, but not unique, either for Russia or for the U.S.

9. What would the consequences of allowing undue Russian influence in our elections be, exactly? Would we yield primacy in Eastern Europe to Vladimir Putin? Would we give up our plans for missile defense? Would we make deep unilateral cuts in our nuclear arsenal in exchange for flimsy concessions ? Would we tolerate a Russian land invasion of a friendly, pro-Western country? Would we cede the Middle East to Russian hegemony? Because Hillary Clinton and Obama already did that.

10. Occam’s razor: the simplest explanation for the “Russian hacking” story is that it is “fake news” that suits the left-wing media. It is not unknown for Russia to use false propaganda to affect public opinion in foreign countries. Nor is it unknown for the U.S. media to use bias, “fake news,” and outright lies to shift public opinion in this country. The current focus on Russian “hacking,” based on no new evidence and — again — zero evidence of tampering with the voting process.
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Offline J P Sousa

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2016, 08:24:50 PM »
I think John Bolton said it best; "The CIA says there are Russian finger prints on the DNC hack but NO finger prints on Hillary's 'possible server hack' (according to the FBI: most likely Russia and others hacked Hillary) maybe Russia used the smart hackers to hack Hillary but the dumb hackers to hack the DNC" ???   :rotf:

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Offline Undies

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2016, 10:56:10 PM »
Here are just ten of the reasons the “Russian hacking” story is a sham — a left-wing twist on the red-baiting McCarthyism of the 1950s.

Thank you.  I have been trying to organize my thoughts about these circumstances yet failing to get them together.  You did an excellent job.

You get the Undies Blue Ribbon.  What you do with it is your business.

Thanks again.

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2016, 01:29:49 AM »
So- think this through...

Stop.  Right.  There.

You know better than that, Dutch.
              

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2016, 04:30:38 AM »
Here are just ten of the reasons the “Russian hacking” story is a sham — a left-wing twist on the red-baiting McCarthyism of the 1950s.

1. There is actually no new information leading the CIA to its conclusion. The New York Times reports: “The C.I.A.’s conclusion does not appear to be the product of specific new intelligence obtained since the election, several American officials, including some who had read the agency’s briefing, said on Sunday. Rather, it was an analysis of what many believe is overwhelming circumstantial evidence — evidence that others feel does not support firm judgments — that the Russians put a thumb on the scale for Mr. Trump, and got their desired outcome.” In other words, someone only decided after Trump won that the accusation was worth making.

2. The “evidence” that the CIA has gathered is inconclusive. The FBI also disagrees with some of the CIA’s conclusions about Russia’s motives. “While lawmakers were seemingly united on the need to present a strong bipartisan response, the FBI and CIA gave lawmakers differing accounts on Russia’s motives, according to The Post,” The Hill reported on Sunday.

3. The CIA is not making public claims that Russia hacked the election. Several CIA veterans, in fact, have urged caution about the leaked reports. As Newsweek reports: “‘I am not saying that I don’t think Russia did this,’ Nada Bakos, a top former CIA counterterrorism officer tells Newsweek, in a typical comment. ‘My main concern is that we will rush to judgment. The analysis needs to be cohesive and done the right way.'” Thus far there is not even a clear idea what the CIA’s conclusions are.

4. Despite left-wing “fake news,” there is no evidence Russian hackers actually distorted the voting process. The most that the CIA is alleging is that the Russians may have helped hack of the Democratic National Committee emails, as well as (possibly) the emails of Hillary Clinton campaign chaiman John Podesta. There is zero evidence Russian hackers messed with voting. Ironically, Green Party candidate Jill Stein’s recount has eliminated any doubt about the integrity of the results.

5. The Obama administration has a history of manipulating intelligence for political gain. The most under-reported scandal of Obama’s presidency was the CENTCOM scandal, in which it emerged that “senior U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM) leaders manipulated intelligence assessments in 2014 and 2015 to make it appear that President Barack Obama is winning the war against the Islamic State (ISIS/ISIL).” There is even more reason to doubt the truth of a selective leak about the election.

6. Julian Assange and Wikileaks have vigorously denied that the Russians were involved in Wikileaks’ disclosures. Of the Democratic National Committee emails, Assange said: “That is the circumstantial evidence that some Russian, or someone who wanted to make them look like a Russian, was involved, with these other media organisations. That is not the case for the material that we released.” Assange made similar denials about the Podesta email leaks later in the election.

7. The fact that the Russians might constantly be trying to hack U.S. systems, and might even specifically have targeted the election, does not prove that they succeeded. Nor does it prove that they tipped the election to Trump even if they had some effect. As pollster Frank Luntz tweeted: “Did Russia also hack Hillary’s campaign calendar and delete all her stops in rural Wisconsin, Penn., and Michigan?” Hillary Clinton lost the election for reasons entirely of her own making.

8. Foreign interference in elections is nothing new — and the Obama administration is a prime culprit. In 2015, the Obama administration made a strenuous and not-terribly-well-hidden effort to swing the Israeli elections toward the opposition and away from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The State Department gave $300,000 to a “pro-peace” Israeli group, which then paid political activists whose goal was to unseat Netanyahu. In 1984, the late Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) actually asked for Soviet help. Russian efforts to intervene would be bad, but not unique, either for Russia or for the U.S.

9. What would the consequences of allowing undue Russian influence in our elections be, exactly? Would we yield primacy in Eastern Europe to Vladimir Putin? Would we give up our plans for missile defense? Would we make deep unilateral cuts in our nuclear arsenal in exchange for flimsy concessions ? Would we tolerate a Russian land invasion of a friendly, pro-Western country? Would we cede the Middle East to Russian hegemony? Because Hillary Clinton and Obama already did that.

10. Occam’s razor: the simplest explanation for the “Russian hacking” story is that it is “fake news” that suits the left-wing media. It is not unknown for Russia to use false propaganda to affect public opinion in foreign countries. Nor is it unknown for the U.S. media to use bias, “fake news,” and outright lies to shift public opinion in this country. The current focus on Russian “hacking,” based on no new evidence and — again — zero evidence of tampering with the voting process.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

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Offline Linda

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2016, 07:00:08 AM »
If the DUmmies were really intrested in the integrity of theis election why aren't they concerned about this:

http://thefederalistpapers.org/us/list-of-countries-that-interfered-in-the-election-for-hillary-clinton

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Offline BadCat

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2016, 07:25:47 AM »
Let's just pretend it was the Russians who hacked in.

WHO was President of the United States and had the RESPONSIBILITY for our NATIONAL CYBER-SECURITY when it happened?
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Offline FunkyZero

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2016, 07:48:12 AM »
Quote
By letting the American people see the truth of the Clintons and the DNC they in turn voted from Trump. I can see why the left is wanting to overthrow the country now!  :rotf:

This is the part that is a little bewildering to me. Their entire obsession is with the Russians.
Let's pretend, for a minute, that they are correct.
So...  they have gone rabid over the point, but not a one of them seems disgruntled by the fact that their beloved DNC provided all the dirt by betraying them with dishonesty and dirty tricks.
Kill the messenger, that dirty bastard.

meh...

Offline FiddyBeowulf

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Re: Honest question. If there is proof that Russia hacked the DNC
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2016, 08:55:57 AM »
Let's just pretend it was the Russians who hacked in.

WHO was President of the United States and had the RESPONSIBILITY for our NATIONAL CYBER-SECURITY when it happened?
C'mon, give the guy a break. He is just finding out about it now like everyone else just like every other administration **** up.
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