Author Topic: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.  (Read 38284 times)

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Offline bluja000

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #125 on: June 13, 2015, 02:45:18 AM »
Free food, great insurance, utility credits & subsidized rent. I have a feeling he had more disposable income every month then I do. He bragged about how they were better off not working.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure how to respond.  First, I truly appreciate the condolences that some of you have expressed toward me with the death of my husband.  However, it truly saddens me when I read so many comments full of hate.  Calling his death a suicide, saying that he deserved every bit of pain and injury he sustained, that it was entirely his fault that he was on disability.

Comments like the one I quoted.  Sorry, we had what?  Free food?  Ok, we received a monthly food stamp allowance that totaled $103.  Hmm, that was quite a bit of free food.  Actually, it allowed us to get food from the dollar store near us, and the produce and fruit that we purchased was usually good to use as long as it was within that day or the day after.  It wasn't a great deal of free food, but it was very helpful.  And this was after we had originally been receiving about $160.  For some reason, we lost about $60, while not increasing our income one iota.  But here, lets get to the next point.

The great insurance.  Ok, heres the deal with that.  Due to Kirk ending up hospitalized, we found out that the state would help us with the MONTHLY Medicare Part B, as long as I didn't work.  At all.  I was his nurse for over four years, with no support of any kind.  I read over some of the previous old posts where I had posted, 2 years ago.  That was right before his first hospitalization, where I gave up on treating him and sent him by ambulance.  Barely saved his leg that time (which, btw, was not good enough, he lost the leg about six months later).  So he gets Part B, and qualifies for extra help with Part D as well (medication section).  So he finally starts getting the diabetic medication (which so many of you doubted he needed, because of COURSE there was no way he wouldn't have gotten insulin or other diabetic medication, even if he couldn't afford the doctor visits to GET those scripts).  He also starts getting some minimal support for other issues, including home health.  Home health has a problem dealing with roommate, due to an issue with proper bathing by our roommate (odor build-up that helped drive away the home health), and they couldn't handle the bed bugs.  Again, something that many on the forums doubted we actually had.  Well, those issues meant that Kirk ended up hospitalized again, this time losing one leg due to total body failure from a massive bone infection.  Long story short, he spent approximately 45 days in one medical setting, stayed home for about... six months, then spent another 45 days in another hospital recovering from losing a leg.  Six months later, back in the hospital, and offered the choice of another leg amputation, or trying an extreme surgery to maybe save the leg and foot.  He chose the surgery, and spent almost ten months in medical facilities, with me visiting him almost daily.

He had just come home, and was home for less than two months, when he died.  He had not qualified for Medicaid previously, unless he was in a medical facility for 30 days or more.  They explained that it was because he made too much with his Medicare, and was considered a single person household.  I was not part of that household when medical was being evaluated, because I didn't make enough to contribute to his household (had to be $770 monthly).  However, this last stint in the medical facilities meant that he was looked at as a candidate for a program with a Medicaid waiver.  His income was low enough, and his situation was considered bad enough, that he qualified for the Medicaid waiver.  This would mean that he would qualify for services, such as free doctors, medication, rides, specialists, etc, that he previously didn't qualify for.  He just had to go through the approval process.  Which usually takes about 45 days.  Guess how many days he was out of the medical facility.  Well, long enough that he was informed he was approved, and it would take approximately 72 hours for the approval to post.  Eight days later, he was dead.

Oh, but wait, there were other freebies...  According to RobJohnson, anyway.  What was it?  Oh yeah, utility credits & subsidized rent.  Well, lets go over that.  We probably qualified for power assistance, a friend of ours did, and he made more and had a smaller household.  However, I was able to handle the power bills, as long as we were careful, so I never actually followed through on getting that application process completed.  And I have no idea if we qualified for housing, because I never filled out an application for that either.  Now, I will admit, once Kirk was approved for the Medicaid, I figured it'd be fairly easy to get us on the housing list, and summer does run our power bill higher.  However, spreading out the charges by doing the Equal Month payment setup makes it fairly easy to handle, if I'm judicious.  So, was there something else that was supposed to be free?  Don't see anything further on the list given by RobJohnson, but I'm sure he has a list that he refers to whenever it becomes handy.  Like, when bashing a widow and her dead husband.

Reading the earlier posts, where people seem to think they were being respectful of a dead man and his widow, I really have to question just how you view respect.  Making fun of the fact that someone is getting cremated, and thinking that comments about how it's possible he could set fire to the crematorium?  How is that respectful of the dead?  I don't know how you are treated on DU, but I have NEVER, ever said anything disrespectful to any of you.  I've had you doubt whether I have my own opinions, my own voice, and my own comments/posts.  I have never responded in kind to you, doubting whether you were saying what you feel.

Telling others that my husband committed suicide, simply because he took a few additional pills to relieve his pain?  You have no idea of the story behind those pills, or the story behind the last two months of his life.  Hell, you honestly don't understand how it has been for us for the past twelve years that I've had with this man, this obese man who dealt with the situation he had to deal with.  We had only a very, VERY short period of time where he lived a normal life, and even from the beginning, he was having health problems.  Hell, a month after we started talking, he ended up almost cancelling his trip to see/meet me, because he had issues with his leg.  He was terrified that I would want nothing to do with him, because he felt that his medical problems would run me off.  They didn't, and throughout the remainder of his life, as short as it was, I loved and cared for him, and simply wanted him to be able to live life to the fullest.

The really sad thing is, he had just gotten the approval.  He went to see a pain doctor, as well as a primary doctor, two days before he died.  He had to make a one month pain script last almost two months, but damnit, when he saw the new pain doctors, they agreed that he needed serious help.  He was going to be seeing therapists, specialists, his primary doctor, everyone and anyone that could help improve his situation and maybe even help him live a somewhat normal life.  I got his pain script filled the day before he died, and was aware, in the back of my mind, that he had been having more problems with not breathing while sleeping.  I didn't think much of it, because it was something we were working on, and had been a long term issue.  He was used to waking up if he stopped breathing.  So, when I came home with the new pain pills, he still had a few left from that one month script.  He took the last few pills, because he had been in so much pain for so long, he just wanted a little relief.  I helped him to bed a little later, and he was in a good mood, feeling relatively pain free and happy.

I ended up at the computer, kinda playing a game, and sorta watching tv.  I was tired, I ended up dozing.  I might have even woken up when he stopped breathing, because he was relatively loud due to snoring from the sleep apnea.  But when I finally woke up, and realized he was too quiet, there was nothing 911 or I could do.  I called 911 around 8am, the coroners paperwork gives a projected time of death of 4:25am.  My husband, my heart, my love, he died and there was nothing I could do for him.

And all I hear from you folks here is hateful and spiteful.  Yes, there are a few voices out there that say that they hope my life improves without him.  That's not possible.  Yes, I can now look for work and get off assistance, possibly.  Yes, I might be able to  improve my situation without him.  That doesn't mean that my life will ever be the same without him.  We had so many plans, we were looking at a future that we thought would be so much better.  But now I have to live, knowing that there are judgemental people out there that will make fun of a man simply because he wasn't able to meet their expectations of what they thought he should have been able to do.

I don't know.  I don't think that you can ever change.  My expectations of the people here on this forum... well, what do you care.  Not like you really ever respected me or Kirk.  I hope that you can learn, but somehow I doubt it.  So many of you were speaking of one idea, with many voices.  And you talk so bad about DU doing the same thing.  I don't know, maybe DU is just as bad.  If so, I feel pity for all of you.
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Offline Carl

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #126 on: June 13, 2015, 04:25:24 AM »
While I don`t doubt you cared for him Jeannette,I do hope in time you will come to see exactly how he treated you.
Perhaps not physically but the battered wife syndrome is all I can describe it by.
Sorry for that honesty.

Offline bluja000

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #127 on: June 13, 2015, 05:10:10 AM »
You may believe that I was abused (or battered) as his wife, but at least he never, ever insulted me the way people did on this board.  He never raised a hand at me, and very rarely ever yelled at me or raised his voice.  I was far more vocal towards him when I felt that he was wrong about something.  No, he wasn't perfect, neither am I.  However, I know how my homelife was with him, and you cannot know or judge him without having been in my shoes.  It actually disgusts me that people can say what they have regarding my relationship with him, when I'm the one that lived with him, not anyone else.  And those that DID live with us would never have called me a battered wife.  Or even an abused one, which is probably more what you are talking about, since battered is for those who are being beaten.  I was never beaten, physically, mentally, or emotionally, not by him, anyway.
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Offline Mr Mannn

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #128 on: June 13, 2015, 07:01:11 AM »
While I don`t doubt you cared for him Jeannette,I do hope in time you will come to see exactly how he treated you.
Perhaps not physically but the battered wife syndrome is all I can describe it by.
Sorry for that honesty.
Hi5. Agreed.

Kirk had a guaranteed job offered to him right here on this board. A sit down job at a computer...something he already did. If he could play WoW for hours, he could work at a computer.

Kirk turned it down. The two of you offered nothing but excuses.
My only conclusion: He lived the life he chose.

I can understand the pain of a loved one lost. But I stand by my words on this thread. Truth can be painful to hear, but it is never hate.

Jeanette, you have the rest of your life before you. There is a time to morn, and that is now.
But after that, you need to take care of yourself. Find a job.


Offline SVPete

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #129 on: June 13, 2015, 07:34:34 AM »
Quote
However, it truly saddens me when I read so many comments full of hate.  Calling his death a suicide, saying that he deserved every bit of pain and injury he sustained, that it was entirely his fault that he was on disability.

bluja, pointing out the consequences of a lifestyle may be hurtful, painful, or even incorrect, but it isn't hatred. Seriously, don't inflate words with valuable meaning, or being served mushy pasta at a restaurant could be called hatred if it offends you enough.

Being severely overweight has consequences. I have and to some degree still do. My lack of knife-fork-and-spoon control limited my ability to help in the work of my son's Eagle Project (he may not have noticed, but I sure did).  My lack of knife-fork-and-spoon control led to a heart attack at age 48.

Some people respond to such experiences by doing something to reduce or fix the cause of the problems. It took me more than a decade after my heart attack, but I did. I lost weight, am more controlled in my eating, and I do half marathons at a fast walk. Consequences? I have to walk all but .1 of that 13.1 miles. Consequences? I realized last weekend that a very challenging goal toward which I've been working for nearly a year is very unrealistic.

Some people respond to such experiences by becoming unpleasant, manipulative, and dependent - by digging their ditch of misery deeper and pulling those close to them into it. I'll leave to you filling in those "blanks", the consequences, but it sounds like your late husband took that road.

I have some experience with having had a near-abusive very close family relative, who is now dead. My counsel, from that perspective is, however much you loved and love him, don't deny or try to minimize his abuse, whatever form it took. That would only set you up for some sort of future abuse. Don't do that to yourself!
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Offline BuzzClik

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #130 on: June 13, 2015, 07:43:57 AM »
While I don`t doubt you cared for him Jeannette,I do hope in time you will come to see exactly how he treated you.
Perhaps not physically but the battered wife syndrome is all I can describe it by.
Sorry for that honesty.

Yes, bluja000, listen to Carl. He reads a bulletin board, so he knows everything there is to know about everything. You don't even have to ask. He will tell, without invitation and without verification, how superior he is and how inferior you are.

And, if you ever dare challenge him about his knowledge (you know, stuff like "my husband never abused me"), he will call you a liar and will be cheered by all others who post here.

Offline obumazombie

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #131 on: June 13, 2015, 07:48:53 AM »
I see Buzzy watching the thread as I post.
No doubt he is circling like a vulture waiting to pounce on any perceived slight and call it "full of hate".
I hope I am there to see it right away to counter lib lies with truth(that libs love to call hate).
Libs loving to call truth hate, especially as a tactic to attempt to extort silence is the lib's favorite past time.
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Offline Carl

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #132 on: June 13, 2015, 07:50:53 AM »
Yes, bluja000, listen to Carl. He reads a bulletin board, so he knows everything there is to know about everything. You don't even have to ask. He will tell, without invitation and without verification, how superior he is and how inferior you are.

And, if you ever dare challenge him about his knowledge (you know, stuff like "my husband never abused me"), he will call you a liar and will be cheered by all others who post here.

Look at the little ***** vulture that swooped in.
You have challenges here buzzy,I suggest you strongly consider answering them.

Offline obumazombie

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #133 on: June 13, 2015, 07:51:07 AM »
Yes, bluja000, listen to Carl. He reads a bulletin board, so he knows everything there is to know about everything. You don't even have to ask. He will tell, without invitation and without verification, how superior he is and how inferior you are.

And, if you ever dare challenge him about his knowledge (you know, stuff like "my husband never abused me"), he will call you a liar and will be cheered by all others who post here.

I see Buzzy watching the thread as I post.
No doubt he is circling like a vulture waiting to pounce on any perceived slight and call it "full of hate".
I hope I am there to see it right away to counter lib lies with truth(that libs love to call hate).
Libs loving to call truth hate, especially as a tactic to attempt to extort silence is the lib's favorite past time.

Nailed it !!!
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Offline franksolich

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #134 on: June 13, 2015, 07:51:26 AM »

Now, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Kirk respected you?

I wasn't seeing that, and probably I read Kirk much more, and more often, than others.

It in fact got my goat, the way he talked about you.

You were his main support, yet he was the "smart one," as if you were a helpless cretin.  There were several times he made this disturbing comparison.

Hades, madam, I have a higher respect for your intelligence, than I did for his.

Maybe I belong in another century or something, but I've never liked it when couples disparage each other, even if in fun (in your case, it was one-sided, coming from him); to me, there's nothing funny about one of a pair lording it over the other of a pair.  There were lots of times I thought Kirk needed kicked in the teeth, for his disparagement of you.....the one who was keeping him alive.

You're not, madam, but face it, the guy was an ass.
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Offline bluja000

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #135 on: June 13, 2015, 07:52:38 AM »
Hi5. Agreed.

Kirk had a guaranteed job offered to him right here on this board. A sit down job at a computer...something he already did. If he could play WoW for hours, he could work at a computer.

Kirk turned it down. The two of you offered nothing but excuses.
My only conclusion: He lived the life he chose.

I can understand the pain of a loved one lost. But I stand by my words on this thread. Truth can be painful to hear, but it is never hate.

Jeanette, you have the rest of your life before you. There is a time to morn, and that is now.
But after that, you need to take care of yourself. Find a job.

I remember him explaining that he mostly browsed the internet because he couldn't spend the time he used to typing.  Apparently the job offered required typing, because the person who offered the job said that he wouldn't be able to do it then.  Kirk wasn't playing WoW, and in fact, was unable to play any game for long periods of time.  He found it more and more difficult to even navigate the games, leaving the "talking" to me.  I understand, however, that you would like to consider that an excuse.  Later, it became even more difficult, because the medical facilities needed blood draws, sometimes daily.  He was what is considered a "hard stick", his veins being so bad that they would collapse at the first opportunity.  They had to draw blood through his hands, which caused massive nerve damage, over and above the issues he was already experiencing.  But of course, that's just another excuse...

There's also the fact that I would have been more than happy to consider that sit down computer job.  That would have been perfect for me.  But no, it was only available for Kirk.  Who physically couldn't handle the typing apparently required for the work.  Who would mainly go slow on posting his comments, because he seldom was able to complete a post in one sitting, without resting his hands.  I would still love to get a computer sit down job.  I'm not at all adverse to working.  Even while dealing with my future move, paring down the belongings that were Kirks stuff, trying to figure out who to give items to.  I'm not looking for money for the various items that Kirk had and that I now have to get rid of.  I've been donating items to places and people that I think will be able to use them.  But I'm guessing you will find an excuse in there somewhere.

All you can see is excuses.  And I no longer care.  You can think what you want, because it's too late to hurt Kirk anymore.  And I'm NOT going to let you hurt me anymore, like so many of you did earlier in this thread.  No matter how many kind words people used, there was far more hate thrown in, for a dead guy who can no longer even begin to try to defend himself.  And I don't need to defend him to you, because it no longer matters.  If I was mistreated by Kirk, then it's on me to deal with it.  You have no right to tell me whether he should have treated me different, or how he should have treated me.  It's in the past.  And as for your admonishment that I should get a job, give me details about the job that wasn't good enough for me, but was good enough for Kirk (the computer job), because I think that would work well for me.  Otherwise, leave me alone, and let me decide how I want to live my life.  You aren't responsible for me, so let me deal with my life the way I choose to.  Whether that be as a panhandler in Chicago, or a wealthy socialite in San Francisco.  It's not going to have a thing to do with you.
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Offline bluja000

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #136 on: June 13, 2015, 08:05:35 AM »
bluja, pointing out the consequences of a lifestyle may be hurtful, painful, or even incorrect, but it isn't hatred. Seriously, don't inflate words with valuable meaning, or being served mushy pasta at a restaurant could be called hatred if it offends you enough.

Being severely overweight has consequences. I have and to some degree still do. My lack of knife-fork-and-spoon control limited my ability to help in the work of my son's Eagle Project (he may not have noticed, but I sure did).  My lack of knife-fork-and-spoon control led to a heart attack at age 48.

Some people respond to such experiences by doing something to reduce or fix the cause of the problems. It took me more than a decade after my heart attack, but I did. I lost weight, am more controlled in my eating, and I do half marathons at a fast walk. Consequences? I have to walk all but .1 of that 13.1 miles. Consequences? I realized last weekend that a very challenging goal toward which I've been working for nearly a year is very unrealistic.

Some people respond to such experiences by becoming unpleasant, manipulative, and dependent - by digging their ditch of misery deeper and pulling those close to them into it. I'll leave to you filling in those "blanks", the consequences, but it sounds like your late husband took that road.

I have some experience with having had a near-abusive very close family relative, who is now dead. My counsel, from that perspective is, however much you loved and love him, don't deny or try to minimize his abuse, whatever form it took. That would only set you up for some sort of future abuse. Don't do that to yourself!

Ok, so you were able to make changes that improved your life.  However, it took you over a decade, right?  Kirk was hospitalized less than six months after his posts that caused such contention.  And he was in the middle of making life changes.  We were going for fresh fruit and veggies, where available in the Dollar Store.  Unfortunately, it wasn't always possible to get what we wanted, and we'd end up going with whole wheat pasta and unrefined grains, cereal, and other foods based upon the plant based diet he wanted.  While hospitalized, they refused to follow his request for a vegan diet, because they said that they had to have a more standardized menu for all of the residents.

He was discharged about 45 days after being admitted, and ended up hospitalized again about six months later.  The pattern continued.  Forty-five days later, discharged.  Six months later, hospitalized again.  Only this time, he stayed away for almost ten months, missed it by only two days.  And died just under two months later.

How do you compare your decade to his six months out of a hospital setting???  How dare you say that he had the ability to change his lifestyle and manage to improve himself enough to stay out of the hospital.  Six months is NOT a long time, when you consider that each time, he had to deal with ulcers popping up almost immediately upon discharge.  On the soles of his feet (when he HAD two feet, that is), which meant that he had no ability to do much walking or lower body exercises with those ulcers.

I don't know.  Just seems like you folks feel that he should have been able to go walking around, when the ulcers literally took over the sole of one foot.  That meant that he had to stay off that foot and try to keep it elevated as much as possible.  Not only that, but the home health nurse couldn't figure out how to apply the special bandages on his foot, to try to give him the best chance at healing.  Weekly wound care clinic visits still ended with him going to the hospital approximately every six months between hospital stays.  Tell me how he could have changed his lifestyle, in a way that he hadn't already tried.  Again, you know NOTHING about what we went through, and yet you feel you have the right to judge him.  None of you do.  Not a single one of you.
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Offline bluja000

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #137 on: June 13, 2015, 08:12:44 AM »

Now, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Kirk respected you?

I wasn't seeing that, and probably I read Kirk much more, and more often, than others.

It in fact got my goat, the way he talked about you.

You were his main support, yet he was the "smart one," as if you were a helpless cretin.  There were several times he made this disturbing comparison.

Hades, madam, I have a higher respect for your intelligence, than I did for his.

Maybe I belong in another century or something, but I've never liked it when couples disparage each other, even if in fun (in your case, it was one-sided, coming from him); to me, there's nothing funny about one of a pair lording it over the other of a pair.  There were lots of times I thought Kirk needed kicked in the teeth, for his disparagement of you.....the one who was keeping him alive.

You're not, madam, but face it, the guy was an ass.

I never saw him disparage me.  On the contrary, he was very intelligent, but he always made me feel special and loved.  If you want to take his words, and believe that he was being abusive in any way, then so be it.  I'm not going to worry about it.  If he was, in fact, in any way abusive towards me, then that's on me to deal with.  You don't have the right to decide for me whether I was being abused by him, or, in fact, by anyone.  Even others in this thread.  I don't need to defend myself against anything he said, and I should be more than capable of defending myself to anyone here, if I so choose.  I'm not political, and I try to be polite, even when I'm being insulted.  People should leave Kirk alone.  He's dead, he can't defend himself to anyone, and it's too late to hurt him in any way.  Why doesn't everyone just get that?  Didn't your moms ever tell you to not say anything if you couldn't say something nice?  My mom did.  I thought that was one of the universal sayings, along with the one about how she hopes you have kids just like you when you grow up.
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Offline Carl

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #138 on: June 13, 2015, 08:24:17 AM »
Jeanette,Kirk was a member of a site that thrives on hatred for anyone that has more then they do and obsesses about having some means to take that "wealth" and giving it to them.
I truly have no animosity towards you but please don`t think for a moment that the denizens of the DUmp are an honorable sort in any fashion.

Offline bluja000

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #139 on: June 13, 2015, 08:31:15 AM »
Carl, you seem to be a fairly reasoned person, and I have nothing personal against you.  Or, in fact, anyone in this thread.  However, please don't tell me that this forum is not without it's faults.  I can go back to the first page of this thread and bring up the instances of people talking about my husband committing suicide, or how he may cause the crematorium to catch fire, just to name a couple examples of the hate expressed here.  So please, don't try to blame DU for all of the hate, because just doing a search through your forums for LVL shows just a small sample of hatred directed at people who are not welcome on your forums.  Your group seems to thrive on hatred for those who need help.  And honestly, that makes me think of something that's been attributed to Jesus.  I seem to remember something about helping those who need help.  I don't remember it well, and I have probably mangled it beyond recognition.  I apologize if that's the case.  And as for honor, go back to page one of this thread.  Very little honor to be had in what was said.
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #140 on: June 13, 2015, 08:37:10 AM »
Jesus said the poor will always be with you.
He said that in the context of his disciples trying to admonish someone who wanted to show a kindness to Jesus.
His disciples thought that the gesture was frivolously ostentatious, and that there could be a more effective use of wealth in regards to the poor.
But Jesus set them straight.
Now why did Jesus do that ?
There were only two options for gender. At last count there are at least 12, according to libs. By that standard, I'm a male lesbian.

Offline bluja000

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #141 on: June 13, 2015, 08:46:33 AM »
Jesus said the poor will always be with you.
He said that in the context of his disciples trying to admonish someone who wanted to show a kindness to Jesus.
His disciples thought that the gesture was frivolously ostentatious, and that there could be a more effective use of wealth in regards to the poor.
But Jesus set them straight.
Now why did Jesus do that ?

Wasn't it where he was being offered some small item by a poor person, and his disciples didn't believe that the item was worthy of him?  And he said to let the poor man make the offer, because the gesture was worth more than the item?  That's what I'm remembering, but again, it's been a very long time.

And in a way, that's what I'm doing.  Kirk gathered many things over the years, some with a fairly decent value.  I know that I could probably manage to get some money out of what I have and can't keep.  Instead, I'm trying to match the items up with people that can use the items, and appreciate them for what they meant to Kirk.  There's a friend of his that plays cd's, rather than downloading music.  Well, Kirk has a very large collection of cds that he's collected, most of them from before we even met.  Anything medical that can't be used by the friend who I'm moving in with is going to the home health agency that provided Kirk with what resources they could.  And the man that made his prosthetic, he can reuse some of the parts for someone without insurance.  Money would have been nice to get, but it's by no means what I'm after.  Oh, but it's an excuse, I'm sure.  Somehow I'm making an excuse for something.
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Offline Carl

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #142 on: June 13, 2015, 08:53:00 AM »
Carl, you seem to be a fairly reasoned person, and I have nothing personal against you.  Or, in fact, anyone in this thread.  However, please don't tell me that this forum is not without it's faults.  I can go back to the first page of this thread and bring up the instances of people talking about my husband committing suicide, or how he may cause the crematorium to catch fire, just to name a couple examples of the hate expressed here.  So please, don't try to blame DU for all of the hate, because just doing a search through your forums for LVL shows just a small sample of hatred directed at people who are not welcome on your forums.  Your group seems to thrive on hatred for those who need help.  And honestly, that makes me think of something that's been attributed to Jesus.  I seem to remember something about helping those who need help.  I don't remember it well, and I have probably mangled it beyond recognition.  I apologize if that's the case.  And as for honor, go back to page one of this thread.  Very little honor to be had in what was said.

Not people that need help but people that refuse to do anything to help themselves and that is not directed specifically at Kirk.
Life is tough in various degrees for almost everyone and has been forever.
The DUmp is a festering cesspool of malcontents and parasites that insist life should be paid for by someone else while their main ambition is to smoke dope.
All one has to do is lurk there for a short time to see that.
There is no comparison in the least as far as that goes.


Offline Big Dog

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #143 on: June 13, 2015, 08:57:32 AM »
Again, you know NOTHING about what we went through, and yet you feel you have the right to judge him.  None of you do.  Not a single one of you.

Jeanette,

Reality is tough. Avoiding reality is easy, but has unavoidable consequences.

You want us to not judge Kirk or you, yet you want to judge us. It doesn't work that way.  Both of you publicized your private lives, by your own volition. Both of you came here, by your own volition.  Your dependence on taxpayer subsidy (welfare) made us all involuntary partners in your lives. Your expectation that you would not be judged, challenged, or disagreed with is an irrational one.

In your posts here, you focused on the past year or two, as though they are the totality of Kirk's life. That is false. Kirk laid out the path of his  self-destruction decades ago; by refusing to take responsibility for his life, his health, and his responsibilities to you as a man and a husband.

Kirk's morbid obesity, diabetes, circulatory insufficiency, neuropathy, gangrene, sleep apnea, and resulting mental illness were within his control, until they controlled him. He chose a high-carbohydrate diet; he chose sloth; he chose to place you in the role of family breadwinner; and he chose to complain about the insufficiency of welfare instead of throwing off the chains of government slavery and doing whatever he could to support the two of you. That is what a man would do, and Kirk didn't do it.

And you let him.

And at the end, Kirk hoarded his pain pills, took more than the doctor had prescribed, and died. Intentionally or accidentally, Kirk caused his own death.

And you let him.

I understand why you are angry at us, but getting angry at us for pointing out his failure doesn't make the failure go away. All we have done is hold up a mirror. He chose his path, he dragged you down that path to the end, and you enabled him all along the way. Closing your eyes doesn't make the image in the mirror go away, and blaming the mirror for what you see won't change it either.

Mourn your loss, look in the mirror, figure out what was wrong in your relationship with Kirk, and make healthier choices next time.

I wish you much happiness.
Government is the negation of liberty.
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Offline bluja000

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #144 on: June 13, 2015, 09:32:08 AM »
Jeanette,

Reality is tough. Avoiding reality is easy, but has unavoidable consequences.

You want us to not judge Kirk or you, yet you want to judge us. It doesn't work that way.  Both of you publicized your private lives, by your own volition. Both of you came here, by your own volition.  Your dependence on taxpayer subsidy (welfare) made us all involuntary partners in your lives. Your expectation that you would not be judged, challenged, or disagreed with is an irrational one.

In your posts here, you focused on the past year or two, as though they are the totality of Kirk's life. That is false. Kirk laid out the path of his  self-destruction decades ago; by refusing to take responsibility for his life, his health, and his responsibilities to you as a man and a husband.

Kirk's morbid obesity, diabetes, circulatory insufficiency, neuropathy, gangrene, sleep apnea, and resulting mental illness were within his control, until they controlled him. He chose a high-carbohydrate diet; he chose sloth; he chose to place you in the role of family breadwinner; and he chose to complain about the insufficiency of welfare instead of throwing off the chains of government slavery and doing whatever he could to support the two of you. That is what a man would do, and Kirk didn't do it.

And you let him.

And at the end, Kirk hoarded his pain pills, took more than the doctor had prescribed, and died. Intentionally or accidentally, Kirk caused his own death.

And you let him.

I understand why you are angry at us, but getting angry at us for pointing out his failure doesn't make the failure go away. All we have done is hold up a mirror. He chose his path, he dragged you down that path to the end, and you enabled him all along the way. Closing your eyes doesn't make the image in the mirror go away, and blaming the mirror for what you see won't change it either.

Mourn your loss, look in the mirror, figure out what was wrong in your relationship with Kirk, and make healthier choices next time.

I wish you much happiness.

Kirk did make poor choices before meeting me.  And admitted that.  However, by the time he met me, he was already obese.  There was no getting around that.  He attempted to improve his life with exercise and better eating habits.  And I will admit, at that time, I didn't see those choices in the same light.  I decided I didn't want to follow those choices, and he gave in on some things.

However, even when he was making better choices for himself, there were other factors that went against him.  He wanted to start walking more, get more exercise.  Little did he know, he had planar fascitis (I know it's misspelled), which wouldn't have manifested if he hadn't started walking as much as he did.  And the cure for that?  Casts on his feet.  The medication he was given caused swelling within the casts.  And some cheep shoes I bought when he was able to walk again, well, they caused a small wound to start.  Which became an ulcer.  Which became multiple ulcers.  Which spread to his legs.  And on and on.

Yes, before he met me, both of us had screwed up lives.  And I didn't help him make the best choices in life when we got together.  I'm definitely to blame for several things, but I'm not to blame for him getting disability, and us getting food stamps.  I'm sorry, but food stamps aren't cash, and I never treated them like so many others, selling them for half or a quarter of their stated value, just so we could smoke, drink, or do drugs.  You should be looking at those people, but oh, wait, they aren't usually obese.  Because their health habits don't usually allow them to become obese.  So it's ok for them.

Yes, I know I have plenty of blame to accept.  I do that daily, since he passed away.  And I understand that he wasn't perfect, and we could have definitely made changes along the way.  I truly regret the walk that we took, so many years ago.  The one where he came home that night, complaining about how bad his feet hurt.  I remember every step of that walk, and could go back over it right now, if I wanted.  But it's too late, and I'm not going to worry about it now.

And the reason I focused on the last few years of his life?  Well, he didn't have the disability for all that long.  Feb 2009.  Six years.  And you folks tried punishing him for each and every month of it.  Tried making him think that he was worthless because the state decided that he couldn't work, and qualified for disability.  He fought against applying for so long, but finally agreed to apply.  Apparently the state decided extremely quickly that he qualified, because he got it less than three months after applying.  Not after being rejected at least once, this was on his FIRST attempt.  And no, we didn't doctor shop for a doctor who was willing to try putting everything in JUST the right light.  The doctor he was seeing actually basically demanded that Kirk apply, because otherwise we were to the point where we couldn't afford the doctor any longer.

Honestly, as much as I have found this to be therapeutic, I haven't slept since yesterday morning.  I'm going to get some rest, but you are more than welcome to leave me posts that I can respond to later.  Or not, I don't know.  Depends upon whether any are worth responding to.  I hope there are some, like I said, this has actually been therapeutic.

To those who have done more than just repeat that it's all just excuses, I appreciate that.  The calm and rational arguments have been interesting.  It's when the discussions turn into blame you, or you, or hell, let's blame you, or it's all just an excuse, that's when I have to shake my head.

I may not like the topic of discussion, or agree with what someone says.  That doesn't mean that I won't be willing to discuss something if it's not just a repeat of someone calling foul.  And I'm willing to admit if I'm wrong in a comment.  However, don't keep shouting that everything is an excuse, because I'm  not here to provide excuses.  I'm here to understand you folks and the reason(s) why you acted so shameful earlier with your unwarranted comments.
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Offline Big Dog

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #145 on: June 13, 2015, 10:28:12 AM »
Kirk did make poor choices before meeting me. 

Jeanette,

I snipped your last comment, but I am not discounting it.

We are individuals here, and we have individual opinions. This is mine. I have no respect for Kirk, and I will not express false sympathy on his behalf. If I tell you I am sorry for your loss, then I mean it. If I tell you Kirk is responsible for his own death, then I mean it. Kirk wallowed in his victimhood; he seemed to relish it. His refusal to take responsibility for his life led you both to this point.

You wrote about his plantar fasciitis, as though it was some contagious disease he caught while riding the bus. It isn't. Plantar fasciitis is caused by overstress on the ligaments and tendons of the foot. Soldiers develop it from carrying a loaded rucksack, weapon, helmet, body armor, and gear. In Kirk's case, carrying 100+ extra pounds of Kirk did it. Blaming a pair of shoes for his bad feet, and blaming yourself for those shoes, ignores the real cause: Kirk.

Elisabeth Kubler-Ross described five stages of grief, commonly experienced in any significant personal loss: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. Like anything related to human behavior, Kubler-Ross's theory is not set in stone, and not everyone experiences grief the same way; but it's a good tool to understand the emotional reaction to something like the death of a spouse.

Right now, you are in denial, and angry. "Denial" includes excuse making, and blame. "It's not really his fault the bad thing happened, it is the fault of <insert external factor here>." You are angry at yourself. You haven't said it, but you are probably angry at Kirk (edited to add: and if you're not, you soon will be). You're angry at the government, for not giving you enough of other people's money. You're angry at us, for failing to show you the amount of false sympathy you want, and for holding up that mirror that you don't want to look into.

Why is it "false sympathy" if we pat your hand and tell you how sorry we are? Because neither Kirk nor you earned real sympathy- and it is an earned thing. You described years and years of poor choices, on both of your parts. Those choices led inexorably to this end. It's simple: If A, then B. Kirk did A, and ended up with B. You did A, and ended up with B.

Look in the mirror, Jeanette. It's too late for Kirk, but it's not too late for you. Pull up your big girl pants. Stop thinking about 'blame'; think about 'responsibility'. Take responsibility for yourself, and yourself alone. Make healthier choices for yourself.

Whether you recognize it or not, you just received more honest love from a total stranger than Kirk ever gave you.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 11:28:40 AM by Big Dog »
Government is the negation of liberty.
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CAVE FVROREM PATIENTIS.

Offline Vagabond

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #146 on: June 13, 2015, 10:39:35 AM »
My condolences to Jeanette.  I don't have much that is kind to say about Kirk, so I won't say anything here.  Losing someone that is loved is hard.  It has to be even harder when it is because he chose suicide. 

The only thing I would tell the other DUmmies is that when we offer real advice, you would do well to take it.
There comes a time when even good men must run up the black flag of anarchy and slit throats. - H.L. Mencken

Offline BannedFromDU

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #147 on: June 13, 2015, 10:45:34 AM »

     Jeanette - I didn't keep up on the situation, but you have my condolences and I hope you are able to come to terms with what happened. The difference between DU and CC is simple: DU cared about him to the extent that there were government programs around to keep him at a pathetic level of existence. CC, while tough at times, offered concrete solutions that would have involved difficult work. So far your response is typical of the fearful and overwhelmed: yes, well...yes, but...oh, but he can't.... But let's be honest: if he wanted to help himself, he'd have helped himself. He didn't. And he didn't really try: people who honestly try to improve their health always improve their health. Food stamps, shoes, casts, all of that is just noise. I hope you are able to move forward in a positive manner and I wish you good fortune. You probably can't see it, but the people writing replies to you are actually empathetic. I can see it very clearly behind their words.

     Buzz Clik - you are a coward of the highest order. Seriously, all kidding aside: you're a pathetic coward. I would call you a pathetic excuse for a man, but then I'd have to think of one good reason why women would then want to be saddled with someone like you.
This signature is intended to remind you that we are on conquered land.

Offline BuzzClik

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #148 on: June 13, 2015, 10:46:21 AM »
Jeanette,

I snipped your last comment, but I am not discounting it.

We are individuals here, and we have individual opinions. This is mine. I have no respect for Kirk, and I will not express false sympathy on his behalf. If I tell you I am sorry for your loss, then I mean it. If I tell you Kirk is responsible for his own death, then I mean it. Kirk wallowed in his victimhood; he seemed to relish it. His refusal to take responsibility for his life led you both to this point....
blujay00,

My suggestion is you take the Dog's anaysis and walk away. He is one of a small group of people on this board who actually read comments and respond with a degree of empathy and thought.

Seriously, say your last bit and go. A longer stay might suggest you actually enjoy this level of abuse...

Offline BannedFromDU

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Re: The Las Vegas leviathan is gone.
« Reply #149 on: June 13, 2015, 10:53:01 AM »
blujay00,

My suggestion is you take the Dog's anaysis and walk away. He is one of a small group of people on this board who actually read comments and respond with a degree of empathy and thought.

Seriously, say your last bit and go. A longer stay might suggest you actually enjoy this level of abuse...


     Buzz Clik,

     I implore you to **** off. You are, without question, the most pathetic troll this board has ever experienced.  People like Kirk and Jeanette get deeper into bad situations because of bullshitters like you. People here are trying to help this woman, and since you don't like the tenor of the discussion, your contribution is to tell her to run and hide. Meanwhile you avoid challenges here. You're a sad excuse for a human being, and I wish you ill. I sincerely hope you get banned soon, because your fatuous, cowardly stench is offensive.

     Please, Buzz, let men and women post in peace. Go play.

This signature is intended to remind you that we are on conquered land.