Big Mo's crowd discusses leaving a hospital without permission

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/114214755

Oh my.

The thread's a little bit dated, but there's a particular reason I'm posting it.

mopinko (43,911 posts)    Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:13 PM

anybody ever leave a hospital against medical advice?
 
not going into detail here. but there seems to be a belief out there that patients who "elope" get stuck with the bill.

anyone have any experience with that?

4_TN_TITANS (2,930 posts)    Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:19 PM

1. I went AMA from a hospital detox once...
 
They fudged the paperwork so the insurance would pay. It makes sense - they want the guaranteed thousands from the insurance as opposed to taking their chances with directly billing the individual.

Can't promise this is what would happen to you...

tech3149 (3,930 posts)    Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:33 PM

2. Yes, four days of comprehensive testing not a clue for diagnosis
 
Of course I was self pay and would not accept clueless as a diagnosis and left against medical advice. The billing was $24K or so. I talked it down to $13K and that was still too much. Hospital billing is a racket that started back in the early 80's and has only gotten worse, especially for self pay. I'm not sure how it would work out with an insurer refusing to cover the charges for an AMA discharge.

Warpy (82,436 posts)    Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:42 PM

3. I don't recommend it
 
because insurance won't pay for the care you had. It's one way we used to talk people who were really too sick to go home and fend for themselves into staying another day or so to finish tests and/or treatment.

Having insurance refuse to cover an AMA stay is not an urban legend. They do this.

Then there was the stupid, entitled twit who went AMA because she wanted to go smoke and the cardiac monitors wouldn't pick up outside. She was so surprised when she found out she couldn't just waltz back in. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall when the bills came in.

I've never had to go AMA but sleep deprivation makes me rebel within three days or so and I've been pretty good at sweet talking doctors into discharging me against their better judgment. You only get naps in the hospital and if you're old like me, you risk getting loopy.

I suggest you follow my lead and try to sweet talk them into an earlier discharge with quick follow up. It's a hell of a lot cheaper that way. 

mopinko (43,911 posts)    Sat Apr 18, 2015, 02:23 PM

8. i understand that this is told to people
 
all the time to keep them from eloping. it appears to be untrue.

we shall see. 

Warpy (82,436 posts)   Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:24 PM

9. If you're on Medicare, the bill will be paid
 
As for private insurance, it varies state to state. Check the laws in your state first.

Private insurance sucks, but we knew that.

mopinko (43,911 posts)    Sat Apr 18, 2015, 04:33 PM

10. i dont know what the hospital has to report
 
but i assume they know better than to report it in a way that would nix the payments.

StatGirl (308 posts)    Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:43 PM

4. No personal experience, but . . .
 
. . . I Googled this very issue when my dad wanted to leave a hospital that didn't seem to know what to do with him.

He was advised that Medicare would not pay the bill if he just left, but that turned out to be a lie. Medicare will pay for any appropriate charge while the patient is hospitalized. I can't speak to other insurance companies, but you could probably call the specific insurance company and find out.

Scuba (45,215 posts)   Fri Apr 17, 2015, 11:11 PM

7. Twice. No problems with the bill either time.

Trillo (9,144 posts)    Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:25 PM

11. Yes. After an auto accident which totaled two vehicles.
 
Apparently I had banged my head or something. The hospital had cops and security all over the place, and they were manhandling me. I finally said enough is enough, I want out of here. Security had their hand on my arm with a firm grip, a little tiny guy on a power trip, I said repeatedly, in a military loud voice, "Let go of me." Finally, the hospital administrator said to let me go, so he released me (they didn't listen to me, only their boss, this was a hospital, they were supposed to listen to me, no care without my consent). I said I wanted out, they didn't want to let me go, wanted me to sign something about it being against doctors advice.

Insurance paid most of the bill, I don't recall the details regarding hospital copays or deductibles, I believe I had to pay something, but insurance covered most of it. It was in the latter 1980s I believe.

You have to be very careful about believing anything hospitals or doctors tell you. The field is loaded with fraud, they've actually academically rationalized lying as "good for patients" (placebos).

Okay, I brought this thread over to use as a "springboard" on which to launch anecdotes on my own stay in a hospital last weekend, my first in decades, eons.  The primitives are always whining about "lousy care" they get--who can possibly forget the Las Vegas Leviathan, who knew more than his doctors did?--but I'm guessing if it's lousy, it's lousy because the primitives deserve it.

If one conducts oneself as a decent and civilized person in a hospital, the stay can actually be more fun than three days in Disneyland or Monte Carlo or Coney Island--as franksolich clearly demonstrated my own three days in an intensive care unit.

I have no idea how much the stay cost; it's too early to get any bills, but I imagine it wasn't any million dollars as in Skippy's case, despite that franksolich was given more, and a higher quality of, care than Skippy received.

And while Skippy retardedly thanks Obozo and Mooch-elle as if they personally paid his million bucks of hospital care, franksolich on the other hand wants to thank those who really paid, or are paying, his bills--all the other premium-payers on his same medical insurance.

After I'm sure that Big Mo's crowd's gotten wind of this thread, I'll start illuminating the primitives on how to be a good patient.

[Carl]

Crazy Mo saw the men in white suits carrying the jacket with the arms that tie in the back and ran away.

[dane]

If one conducts oneself as a decent and civilized person in a hospital, the stay can actually be more fun than three days in Disneyland or Monte Carlo or Coney Island--as franksolich clearly demonstrated my own three days in an intensive care unit.

I think this (the bolded) part is the clue that the DUllards have never found.  From their own stories, they regularly encounter unfriendly people, and I strongly suspect that is because they themselves project unfriendliness with their body language, facial expressions, and attitude.

They seem never to have learned that ass-holery begets ass-holery.

[franksolich]

I think this (the bolded) part is the clue that the DUllards have never found.  From their own stories, they regularly encounter unfriendly people, and I strongly suspect that is because they themselves project unfriendliness with their body language, facial expressions, and attitude.

They seem never to have learned that ass-holery begets ass-holery.

You know, when I was being carted out of there after three days, it was during the mid-afternoon shift change, so twice the number of staff were standing around to see me leave.

All of them smiled, most of them clapped, and some of them stood up on their feet, as I was wheeled past.

Really. 

It wasn't anything I'd expected, and if I'd known it was coming, I would've dampened it because as God knows, franksolich is no one special, generally not worth a second glance.

I have lots and lots of tips and pointers for the primitives, on how to be a good patient, and as soon as I'm confident Big Mo's crowd is paying attention to this thread, I'll start describing them.

[BlueStateSaint]

I think this (the bolded) part is the clue that the DUllards have never found.  From their own stories, they regularly encounter unfriendly people, and I strongly suspect that is because they themselves project unfriendliness with their body language, facial expressions, and attitude.

They seem never to have learned that ass-holery begets ass-holery.

Your bolded applies across the board, not just for hospital stays.

[RayRaytheSBS]

This is what interested me the most:

Warpy (82,436 posts)   Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:24 PM

9. If you're on Medicare, the bill will be paid
 
As for private insurance, it varies state to state. Check the laws in your state first.

Private insurance sucks, but we knew that.

So Warpy is advocating throwing the bill back on the taxpayer, but yet seems to think that the private insurance is not as good. Last I checked, even under Obamacare (which is a NIGHTMARE compared to private insurance before) you still get better coverage than Medicare. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

I just don't understand how these DUches can be so comfortable with throwing one of their responsibilities back on the taxpayer, for no other reason than they can.

[thundley4]

tech3149 (3,930 posts)    Fri Apr 17, 2015, 10:33 PM

2. Yes, four days of comprehensive testing not a clue for diagnosis
 
Of course I was self pay and would not accept clueless as a diagnosis and left against medical advice. The billing was $24K or so. I talked it down to $13K and that was still too much. Hospital billing is a racket that started back in the early 80's and has only gotten worse, especially for self pay. I'm not sure how it would work out with an insurer refusing to cover the charges for an AMA discharge.

It actually started back in the early mid 70's when democrats passed HMO legislation and Nixon signed it. Up until then many people went without insurance, payments were more reasonable.

[jukin]

It actually started back in the early mid 70's when democrats passed HMO legislation and Nixon signed it. Up until then many people went without insurance, payments were more reasonable.

It was a band aid for the real problem of giving away freeeeeeeeee medical care. Because freeeeeeee is not free Somebody has to pay. give away ten aspirins have to charge the paying customer 11 for 1.

[dane]

Your bolded applies across the board, not just for hospital stays.

True.  That is why the bolding ended where it did, rather than including the rest of the sentence. 

Treat people the way that you want to be treated, and it usually happens exactly that way - restaurants, retail stores, anywhere.

[FlaGator]

I discussed this with my wife who who is a ER nurse and Case Manager. If a person goes AMA then Medicare as the option not to pay and probably won't. If the hospital fudges reports to try and avoid the AMA designation then they run the risk of being charged with Medicare fraud and and hospital could lose its ability to be paid by Medicare for all future patients. Also, the person or persons who falsified the paper work could go to prison.

Insurance companies also have the option not to pay and usually exercise this option.

Lastly, if the person who went AMA needs to return to the hospital to be treated for basically the same issue then neither Medicare, Medicaid nor private insurance will pay for whatever is done. Basically if you want to insure that you rack up a large medical debt then go AMA.

[GOBUCKS]

Scuba (45,215 posts)   Fri Apr 17, 2015, 11:11 PM

7. Twice. No problems with the bill either time.

Both times it was a restaurant.

[dane]

I discussed this with my wife who who is a ER nurse and Case Manager. If a person goes AMA then Medicare as the option not to pay and probably won't. >snip>

Well, there is this   https://www.caring.com/questions/medicare-against-medical-advice

First of all, being an inpatient in a hospital does not make you a prisoner -- no competent adult can be forced to accept unwanted medical care, so if you choose to leave the hospital before your doctor discharges you, you have the right to do so. Medicare Part A covers a medically necessary inpatient hospital stay, as determined by the doctor who "admits" you to the hospital and by the hospital's medical review board. Medicare Part A, too, must agree that the inpatient stay is medically necessary. But the days of your inpatient stay would not retroactively become medically "unnecessary" just because you check yourself out before your doctor officially discharges you. If your stay in the hospital was appropriate in the first place, under Medicare Part A rules, that stay should be covered regardless of the circumstances of your discharge.

I read this to mean that if you were supposed to be there, and authorized to be there, and admitted - the treatment you received while there would be covered.  Doesn't look like there is a "backsies".