Author Topic: Swear Loyalty to Hillary or Else!  (Read 2141 times)

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Offline dutch508

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Swear Loyalty to Hillary or Else!
« on: April 16, 2015, 10:10:38 AM »
I think the purge will begin in two months. By July the anti-Hillary faction will be gone in order to clear the way for pure Hillary- all the time...

 :tongue:

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JDPriestly (48,266 posts)

The demands for Hillary loyalty are loud and clear on DU.

And many of them are accompanied by confessions that the demander is really wanting a more progressive candidate but has resigned him/herself to supporting Hillary out of fear that the only alternative to supporting Hillary is a Republican president.

Not so.

First. The nation will not become more progressive unless those of us who are progressive get our message out and struggle to make our message understood and accepted.

It took years of failure by the progressive movement of the late 19th century to finally result in the election of a couple of presidents who, for a short time, realized progressive policies. And then, the presidents who put those policies into action were not the most progressive possible. They were converts who became emboldened to progressive action by the pressure of the many, many Americans who demanded it.


But, the assumption that at this point, a year before the primaries, that we should all support the candidacy in the primaries of Hillary Clinton, perhaps one of the most right-wing among our potential candidates (if her donor base reflects her convictions), is based on what I believe to be a false assumption: that Hillary is the only potential candidate we have who can win in the general election.

That, may I say, is THE FALLACY OF THE INEVITABLE HILLARY.

First, although she is doing well in the polls, we have no assurance, no proof, not even much evidence that Hillary will survive the primary, much less win in the general election.

I was a child when Adlai Stevenson ran and ran again for president. He was a nice person running on a good platform, but he did not have the personality or charisma to win.

Later, in his first race for the presidency, Nixon lost. When he ran in 1968, Nixon played every dirty trick in the book to win against a candidate who would have made a far better president than Nixon did.

Nixon was viewed by many as inevitable. And the country was deeply divided and depressed by the Viet Nam fiasco.

Then, Democrats succumbed to the temptation of offering what they thought was the most electable candidate: a great guy and the heir apparent, former Vice President Hubert Humphrey.

Humphrey was a great guy, but he was the wrong candidate for the time. He could not separate himself from the establishment types running the Democratic Party.

In addition, the Democratic Party made a demon of itself with the treatment of demonstrators and war protestors at the Party's convention in Chicago. Voices that needed to be heard within the convention hall were excluded. And Democrats lost to a weak candidate, Nixon, in the general election.

We should not repeat those mistakes. We should allow all voices to be heard in the convention hall in 2016. And we should not mindlessly, emotionally nominate the inevitable heir apparent without a primary process that tests him/her.

We should not, at this point, assume that Hillary will be our candidate or that she will win.

We should be encouraging other candidates to stand up and run in the primaries. Primaries are not just popularity contests. They train and test the candidates. They help them hone their messages. They put candidates in the limelight and submit their personalities, their character, their ideas and their purposes to criticism and public appraisal. They help us choose our best candidate, put our best foot forward. Primaries are an essential part of the democratic process.

The assumption that Hillary will be our candidate may prove true. It may not. It is far too early to tell.

Hillary has a huge campaign fund. That is an advantage if you look at it from a superficial point of view.

But a huge campaign fund has to have come from somewhere. And that can be a trap for well funded candidates. Hillary is no exception. Her biggest donors include people who work for large financial institutions and major law firms as well as big corporations. Those donors will be scrutinized and examined inside and out. Their relationships with the Clintons will be analyzed and publicized. Their relationships with foreign countries and foreign interests will be analyzed and publicized. And their relationships with people who have sought or received favors or advantages from the Clintons will be analyzed and publicized. And what is discovered may be very unpleasant for Hillary Clinton. Maybe not. Maybe. It's one of the big unknowns in this election cycle.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. We do not know who our candidate will be. It is too soon to start marching in goosestep with the brass Hillary band. She has a long trek to complete before she is nominated, much less elected.

So relax. Anything can happen between now and November 2016. Give all the primary candidates a good listen to and a good look at. 2016 is an important year. We don't want to mess it up. The future of the earth depends on our care in selecting our candidate. 


So many of the long term posters forget what DU was like during Barry's first run.

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hrmjustin (54,256 posts)
1. Demands? I don't see demands here. I see debate.


Says the loudest of the Hillary faction.

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NoJusticeNoPeace (3,646 posts)
53. Yes, but myself and I think you would never get testy or angry with someone who said

"I will work myself practically to a nervous breakdown to nominate and elect Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren"
But, if neither are nominated I will support whoever the Democratic candidate is.

 
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trumad (38,421 posts)
2. Yawn

Another pro-Hillary brownshirt heard from.

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CreekDog (43,701 posts)
66. HA! 0-7 Jury vote to leave your post alone trumad alerter is now forbidding from alerting for a period of time, thanks to that whiff.


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trumad (38,421 posts)
140. poor little alert stalker...Can't win for nothin.


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Kingofalldems (16,397 posts)
6. Get somebody to run.

I like both Hillary and Elizabeth but Elizabeth says she is not running.

So right now I am with Hillary all the way.


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VanillaRhapsody (16,897 posts)
7. Its not a demand...its just facts...

75% of Democrats support Hillary Clinton....like it or not.


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AtomicKitten (41,925 posts)
22. 57% in polling two days ago

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7058088


Oops.

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VanillaRhapsody (16,897 posts)
28. I could also show YOU how she polls against the Republicans now...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

Better put something stronger in that drink!


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AtomicKitten (41,925 posts)
115. What is not disputable is the trending downward trajectory of her approval rating among Dems, Starting with her book tour which pretty much fell flat to today. She's more popular when she's out of the limelight as if people like the idea of her. It's when she gets out there and opens her mouth that her approval rating heads south. That's a huge problem for a political campaign. And she will go from zero to ugly at the first sign of competition, and we know how that kitchen sink strategy against a fellow Democrat went for her last time. That's why her advocates are trying to put the kibosh on the primary process. 


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DarknessFalls (13 posts)
37. Her voice is uninspiring

Newbe troll alerted on to MIRT!

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VanillaRhapsody (16,897 posts)
39. Her voice now? Seems to be inspiring enough with 75% support of the Party...yes?


There will be no discussion that doesn't support the Hillary!

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JDPriestly (48,266 posts)
135. Unfortunately, you re right. And voices matter.

It isn't that she is a woman and has a high voice. The problem with Hillary is that her voice sounds like it is overly controlled, not spontaneous or heartfelt, and she often has rather a monotone or a voice that stays within just a small scale of what a voice might cover. It sounds therefore dull and unemotional, unengaged. And her laugh has been a problem in the past especially when it becomes a sarcastic laugh.

Th voice matters in the subconscious of the voter.

Obama's voice is warm and reassuring.


She should do more local accents. That's always a crowd pleaser.

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randome (24,600 posts)
10. Not much interested in examples from last century.

As things look now, here, at this specific moment in Time, there is no one on the horizon who will credibly challenge Hillary. That's not a demand that you 'fall in line' or whatever. It's a simple statement of fact.


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VanillaRhapsody (16,897 posts)
13. Who thinks they could win against the woman with 75% party support?

Keep shouting it and someone may believe it.

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VanillaRhapsody (16,897 posts)
41. Name another Democrat with 75% support...this far out ever...
You cannot...


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VanillaRhapsody (16,897 posts)
47. Its VERY important....but not AS important as the FACT that she also polls

in double digit leads against ALL Republicans...consistently...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/


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VanillaRhapsody (16,897 posts)
110. Oh I get you now...her 75% polling numbers is all because of media....We Democrats are all just lemmings for the media right??? Your position is you just don't believe that 75% of Democrats like her because they already KNOW her!!!!


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HereSince1628 (31,159 posts)
111. You don't do angry very well

 :rotf:

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semanticwikiian (61 posts)
80. To all those yapping about 75% approval ratings:

Your are promoting what is known as the "bandwagon" effect.
Get on the Hillary Bandwagon -- everyone else is there, c'mon!
Don't ask questions or think for yourself -- see everyone supporting Hillary!

So enjoy the phantom 75% number while you can -- it won't hold up for a dozen reasons.
I mean, remember, she's ALREADY lost once to an unknown-first-term-senator, right?
... of course it will be different this time -- see the 75% approvals she has!


another obvious troll alerted on.

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VanillaRhapsody (16,897 posts)
100. Yeah enjoy it while you can....its been such for oh over a year now....

how about her polls consistently....just a flash in the pan...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/


Whatever gets ya through the night I suppose!

 
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VanillaRhapsody (16,897 posts)
101. Hillary has survived their attacks for how long now?

She is a pro at it.....there is no one with the gravitas she has when it comes to standing up to their bullshit attacks!

This is how desperate you've become.....you are praying that the Republicans can Faux Outrage her out of the job!!!!


Frank's main squeeze- the Bit Titted One- school the DUmpmonkiez:

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BainsBane (30,634 posts)
35. No, you don't know who the candidate will be

I wrote this earlier that expresses my views about this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6512306

We don't have to resolve the primary today. The election is still a long way off.


You see demands for loyalty. What I see is exasperation that people seem to care only about defeating Clinton and don't propose anything except that. You insist your goal is progressivism. I don't know what that means to you, particularly since there are so few posts about issues. Instead I see a lot of anger at other DUers, nonsense about logos, dishonest posts comparing campaign contributions from a third-party, small state senate race with a presidential campaign, and a lot of sexist tripe. I see hand wringing that Democrats seek to appeal to women and "minorities" and dismissal of rights and concerns of the majority of Americans as "social issues." You may think saying the word progressive over and over again as though its meaning were self-evident, but it is not. Moreover, most Americans don't care about the lables; they care about what candidates are going to do to improve their lives.
Those basic issues of daily life that determine most Americans experiences and voting behavior don't even make an appearnace in most of the posts staking out opposition to Clinton. In fact, many of those concerns are openly dismissed by some as "issues that don't count."
.
I would like to know what issues you all care about and how you would like to see them advanced. Because opposition to a political candidate is not an issue, and it isn't progressive. It's no better than a campaign ad, and some of the stuff I've seen hear is fouler than any Republican would put on the air.

Then I have to wonder if you are even thinking about the country or if you think DU is its own world unto itself.

We should be encouraging other candidates to stand up and run in the primaries.


Nothing you or anyone else posts on DU encourages anyone to run. That you think it does shows a strangely inflated sense of self- importance. I'm all for people doing what they can to influence the party in the direction they would like to see it go, but that isn't accomplished by posting online about how you want a more "progressive" candidate. It's most effectively done at the local level, which then filters up to the national. That is how the Tea Party influenced the GOP. They didn't delude themselves into thinking that arguing with 100 or so people online influenced the direction of their party. If you want to change the party, that takes hard work at the local level, something that I have seen people here give a million excuses for why they shouldn't have to do. That is of course their call, but then one shouldn't be suprised when the results are more of the same.

 
 :-)

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BainsBane (30,634 posts)
51. I'm not putting my eggs anywhere

I haven't committed to any candidate yet, though I don't share the contempt for Clinton many here do. I'd describe myself as leaning Clinton, but I have to see who else runs and what issues emerge through the course of the campaign.

The principle problem for the Clinton detractors is that we don't yet have any other declared candidates. It looks likely O'Malley will run, but I don't know of anyone else at this point. So we are faced with a series of posts that are anti-Clinton, and that, I think, is what pisses people off. Plus we have some claiming they won't vote for Clinton under any circumstances. Not many, but some. 


She is saving her eggs for Frank!

The torch of moral clarity since 12/18/07

2016 DOTY: 06 Omaha Steve - Is dying for ****'s face! How could you not vote for him, you heartless bastards!?!

Offline Chris_

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Re: Swear Loyalty to Hillary or Else!
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2015, 10:36:11 AM »
"The Inevitable Hillary" sounds like a bad children's book.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Linda

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Re: Swear Loyalty to Hillary or Else!
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2015, 10:58:24 AM »
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MSNBC Poll Asks Viewers if Hillary Should be President, Backfires BIG TIME

http://allenbwest.com/2015/04/msnbc-poll-asks-viewers-if-hillary-should-be-president-backfires-big-time/

In fact, according to this MSNBC poll, the overwhelming majority of respondents are NOT planning on voting for her.



The poll on MSNBC’s website appeared on Tuesday morning and currently shows that 86 percent of respondents would NOT vote for Hillary Clinton. Only 13 percent said they would and just two percent said “maybe.”

Of course the poll is “unscientific,” but I can’t believe it’s only conservative trolls who are stacking the deck on MSNBC’s website.


A liberal who is mugged by reality becomes conservative.

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Swear Loyalty to Hillary or Else!
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2015, 11:05:45 AM »
"It is too soon to start marching in goosestep with the brass Hillary band."...well, at least they know what they are.
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline Carl

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Re: Swear Loyalty to Hillary or Else!
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2015, 11:12:11 AM »
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We should not repeat those mistakes. We should allow all voices to be heard in the convention hall in 2016. And we should not mindlessly, emotionally nominate the inevitable heir apparent without a primary process that tests him/her.

Please please do,cheering the decision to omit using the word God in the platform is such a winner!

Offline dixierose

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Re: Swear Loyalty to Hillary or Else!
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2015, 04:05:25 PM »
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BainsBane (30,634 posts)
51. I'm not putting my eggs anywhere
...

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She is saving her eggs for Frank!

GMTA!! That was my first thought when I read that line...then I saw your comment.

 :cheersmate:

 :-)
When Harry Truman was President of the United States, he had a sign on his desk in the White House that said: "The buck stops here." If Barack Obama had a sign on his desk, it would say: "The buck stops with Bush." - Thomas Sowell

Offline DUmpsterDiver

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Re: Swear Loyalty to Hillary or Else!
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2015, 04:17:34 PM »
Frankly, BTBB eggs are aching for some seeds.

Offline obumazombie

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Re: Swear Loyalty to Hillary or Else!
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2015, 08:13:24 PM »
Why don't Hitlery supporters use that figure they use for the percentage of scientists who confirm glow bull warming ?
That's as good or better than any other figure.
It's a lot better than that measly 75% figure they are using to bolster Hitlery support.
There were only two options for gender. At last count there are at least 12, according to libs. By that standard, I'm a male lesbian.

Offline Karin

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Re: Swear Loyalty to Hillary or Else!
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2015, 03:04:41 PM »
That MSNBC poll turned into 87,000 votes (IIRC), and consistently 87% no.  The comments were brutal