A Gay and a JOOOOOOOOOOO walked into a death camp...

[dutch508]

Yes I know it's not a laughing matter. Here is MRT going on about homosexuals who died in the NAZI Death Camps.
Technicaly it should be NaZi for National Socialist German Workers Party, (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP) as the Germans love to hack words together from more words.

ANYWAY.... this is about gays.

MohRokTah (5,934 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026132423

A Different Kind of Holocaust Denial
It's sad, but Holocaust Denial is not exclusive to the anti-semites. It also exists amongst the anti-LGBT bigots.

There is a pernicious group of Holocaust Deniers who claim that the Third Reich was rampant with homosexuality. Nothing could be further from the truth. The pink triangle was as much a death sentence as the yellow Star of David. The only difference is the number of people murdered because of the pink triangle ranged in the thousands while the number of people murdered because of the yellow Star of David was in the millions. LGBT people quickly learned to hide their sexuality, Jewish people could not hide their ancestry.

I give you the source cited by these Holocaust Deniers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pink_Swastika

The next time you hear anybody say, "you know, homosexuals were powerful during the reign of the Nazis." The only counter can be "I would have never taken you as a bigoted Holocaust Denier."

 

hollysmom (3,303 posts)
1. I had a Jewish dentist who could not believe non-jews dies in the holocaust. He thought the story of my grandfathers second wife having to serve Nazi's at a concentration camp when she was 16 could not be true. I saw her tattoos and she was a blonde blue eyed 16 year old at the time. She still had some beauty the years later when I met her for the first time.

He must have been a Liberal Democrat. But of course it is all about them, the DUmpmonkey.

MohRokTah (5,934 posts)
6. It's the new thing in Holocaust Denial. Denying the particular group that was murdered during the Holocaust that the denier is bigoted against was murdered during the Holocaust. Yes, the majority were JEwish people, but millions of other victims were murdered as well under the Third Reich ideal of genetic purity.

It's not new.

The Holocaust (from the Greek ὁλόκαυστος holókaustos: hólos, "whole" and kaustós, "burnt"),[2] also known as the Shoah (Hebrew: השואה, HaShoah, "the catastrophe"), was a genocide in which approximately six million Jews were killed by the Nazi regime and its collaborators. An additional five million non-Jewish victims of Nazi mass murders are included by some historians bringing the total to approximately eleven million. Killings took place throughout Nazi Germany and German-occupied territories

Seems to me the word was invented to explain the deaths of 6 million Jewish people... AND others we tacked on as time went on and the total crimes of the NAZIs were discovered.

Behind the Aegis (35,061 posts)
8. This has been increasing in popularity.

I was familiar with it in the late 80's. It still doesn't even rise to the "popularity" of the traditional Holocaust denials, including the "Jews/Zionists" were responsible." It is a form of blame shifting to the victims; it is a version of the "short skirt/sexual past defense" used against rape survivors.

The other reason this tripe is used is the same reason the "Jews/Zionists did it" is used and that is to further demonstrate how evil these people really are. It boils down to: "see, if they would do this to their own kind, think what they are doing to us?! Cui bono?!" It is the ultimate use of historical facts in a way which creates a conspiracy theory defaming the actual victims and to prove how they are actually guilty and how the perpetrators are actual the victims of these evil doers.

Jews were abused by other non-Jewish prisoners and wore triangles slightly larger than others so they were easier to identify. Guess which other group faced the same abuse and over-sized triangles? Hint: It is in my avatar.

 

Yes, yes... the gays had it bad under Hitler.

Between 5,000 and 15,000 homosexuals of German nationality are estimated to have been sent to concentration camps. It is unclear how many of the 5,000 to 15,000 eventually perished in the camps, but leading scholar Rüdiger Lautmann believes that the death rate of homosexuals in concentration camps may have been as high as 60%.

Hm... MAYBE 3000 to 6000 gays were murdered in the death camps. Yeah- that EXACTLY like the Jews.

Martin Gilbert arrived at a "minimum estimate" of over 5.75 million Jewish victims. Lucy S. Dawidowicz used pre-war census figures to estimate that 5.934 million Jews died.

The problem is no one is exactly sure how many were killed.

[GeorgeKaplan]

Y'know I'm not sure what is worse, the assholes who on DU who think that Jewish deaths are OK or the actual liberal Jews who make excuses for those deaths. **** this faggot asshole Aegis...he claims to be a Jew...he's just faggot asshole liberal.

[GeorgeKaplan]

Trust me, this faggot would have watched his fellow ass-pirates go right into the ovens. No heroics. just liberal bullshit...all talk, no action. Keyboard assholes not apply.

[thundley4]

So who is still hell bent on killing both Jews and gays?

Muslims The same people that liberals side with against the US.

[JohnnyReb]

Hey, at least the Nazis were fashionable....the male homosexuals got pink triangles.

[diesel driver]

So who is still hell bent on killing both Jews and gays?

Muslims The same people that liberals side with against the US.

The Muzzies are non-discriminating.

They're hell bent on killing EVERYBODY.

[Delmar]

The next time you hear anybody say, "you know, homosexuals were powerful during the reign of the Nazis." The only counter can be "I would have never taken you as a bigoted Holocaust Denier."

I'll try to remember to use that stinging retort the next time somebody tries telling me that the homosexuals were powerful during the reign of the Nazis.  I'm not going to hold my breath since the next time someone says this to me will be the first time.

Thanks for the history lesson, you babbling idiot DUmmy.

[JohnnyReb]

I'll try to remember to use that stinging retort the next time somebody tries telling me that the homosexuals were powerful during the reign of the Nazis.  I'm not going to hold my breath since the next time someone says this to me will be the first time.

Thanks for the history lesson, you babbling idiot DUmmy.

The ranks of the SA (brown shirts) were not only full of homosexuals but led by homosexuals. They bought Hitler to power and when they became an embarrassment and weren't needed anymore, they were killed.

When the democrats finally get enough people dependent on government, the queers will have to go.

[DumbAss Tanker]

The ranks of the SA (brown shirts) were not only full of homosexuals but led by homosexuals. They bought Hitler to power and when they became an embarrassment and weren't needed anymore, they were killed.

When the democrats finally get enough people dependent on government, the queers will have to go.

The Libs have a peculiar double-think going on with Nazis and faggotry.  On the one hand, they are adamant that faggotry is perfectly normal and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably a Klan member or serial-killer-in-training who needs to be driven from their job and publicly shamed for thought crime.  Yet whenever they talk about Nazis and want to demean all of them, the first thing they go to, usually with the most childish schoolyard tittering tone possible, is homoerotic imagery in some of the propaganda films* and the closet faggotry, real or imagined, of some of the leaders, like Roehm (Not so closeted and definitely real in that particular ass-pirate's case).

*Though some of the most well-known films were directed by Leni Riefenstahl, a woman, so whether her shots of ripped dudes without shirts was her own little heterosexual thing, really meant to appeal to homos after all, or intended to exploit the propaganda imagery of strong and fit people in a country that had suffered about fifteen years of poverty and famine is all a pretty debatable point.

[SVPete]

The ranks of the SA (brown shirts) were not only full of homosexuals but led by homosexuals. They bought Hitler to power and when they became an embarrassment and weren't needed anymore, they were killed.

When the democrats finally get enough people dependent on government, the queers will have to go.

Ernst Roehm, the leader of the SA, was a homosexual. The SA was purged in 1938 (IIRC) both because they were getting so flagrant as to be both an embarrassment/hindrance to Hitler getting the German people onboard with his agenda and were becoming a power base with potential to turn on Hitler. The latter was kind of like Stalin's purges of the "Old Bolsheviks" in the mid 30s and the Soviet Army officer corps in 1937 and 1938.

More to the point of the DU OP, I probably heard of homosexuals being killed in Nazi concentration camps in the early-mid 1970s, in high school or just after. Given that Jews were probably slaughtered 10-1 compared to homosexuals (if not at a higher ratio) that's hardly surprising to me. Since then I have never heard anyone claim that the Nazis did not kill homosexuals in the camps. The closest I've heard, some 25 or 30 years ago, was some author of a book claiming that many of the Nazis were of one sub-group of homosexuals that sent members of another sub-group to the camps. That's a weird claim, but it's not a denial that homosexuals were killed in Nazi concentration camps. May be the DU OPer was alluding to that guy, but either got a distorted version of his claim, or simply re-spun (= lied) the claim into something contrary to that claim.

[Big Dog]

The DUmmy created a stupid straw man.

Mel Brooks used the Nazi purge of homosexuals as a plot device in his 1983 movie To Be or Not To Be. He wasn't revealing a deep dark secret.

The DUmmy seeks to create an equivalency. Given that 500-1000 Jews were executed for every homosexual, the DUmmy is certainly devaluing the lives of the mountain of dead Jews, while elevating the molehill of dead sexual deviants.

[JohnnyReb]

We always hear about the 6 million Jews that were killed in the camps. They always seem to forget the other 5 to 7 million that also died in them. The DUmmies must be trying to claim that the 5 to 7 million were homosexual to garner sympathy for their agenda.

[Big Dog]

We always hear about the 6 million Jews that were killed in the camps. They always seem to forget the other 5 to 7 million that also died in them. The DUmmies must be trying to claim that the 5 to 7 million were homosexual to garner sympathy for their agenda.

That would be a lot of dead cocksuckers.

[98ZJUSMC]

I give you the source cited by these Holocaust Deniers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pink_Swastika

What....Wikipedia just happens to be inconvenient now?

[I_B_Perky]

The ranks of the SA (brown shirts) were not only full of homosexuals but led by homosexuals. They bought Hitler to power and when they became an embarrassment and weren't needed anymore, they were killed.

When the democrats finally get enough people dependent on government, the queers will have to go.

Yep. Correct on both statements. The dems are already throwing the blacks under the bus in favor of the hispanics.

Ernst Roehm, the leader of the SA, was a homosexual. The SA was purged in 1938 (IIRC) both because they were getting so flagrant as to be both an embarrassment/hindrance to Hitler getting the German people onboard with his agenda and were becoming a power base with potential to turn on Hitler. The latter was kind of like Stalin's purges of the "Old Bolsheviks" in the mid 30s and the Soviet Army officer corps in 1937 and 1938.

More to the point of the DU OP, I probably heard of homosexuals being killed in Nazi concentration camps in the early-mid 1970s, in high school or just after. Given that Jews were probably slaughtered 10-1 compared to homosexuals (if not at a higher ratio) that's hardly surprising to me. Since then I have never heard anyone claim that the Nazis did not kill homosexuals in the camps. The closest I've heard, some 25 or 30 years ago, was some author of a book claiming that many of the Nazis were of one sub-group of homosexuals that sent members of another sub-group to the camps. That's a weird claim, but it's not a denial that homosexuals were killed in Nazi concentration camps. May be the DU OPer was alluding to that guy, but either got a distorted version of his claim, or simply re-spun (= lied) the claim into something contrary to that claim.

FYI for the dummies: The Nazis sent a lot of different people to the Konzentrationslagers. Like SVpete said, jews just happened to be, by far, the biggest group of people sent there.  Jews, gypsies, queers, lizzies, "enemies of the state", people that pissed off the local gestapo guy, etc. The Konzentrationslagers were their version of the Soviet gulags. Would not surprise me if Stalin got the idea from Hitler. For that matter, where do you think the nazis sent their lazy underclass that would not work such as yourselves, dummies?

And there were a bunch of queers in the upper echelon of the Nazi regime, dummie. Lots.

[obumazombie]

Great thread. I have enjoyed the comments of our fellow cavers.
I am especially enlightened when a lib or a lib group "discovers" something that is so ubiquitous as to be common knowledge.
In their superiority they cannot imagine that their (k)new found knowledge is actually old news to people far more informed than themselves.


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[Skul]

Somewhere I've read that Hermann G. was a turd-burglar, preferring young plump boys.
Sorry, can't cite any sources.  DUmpukes don't need them, why should I? 

[Ptarmigan]

We always hear about the 6 million Jews that were killed in the camps. They always seem to forget the other 5 to 7 million that also died in them. The DUmmies must be trying to claim that the 5 to 7 million were homosexual to garner sympathy for their agenda.

Try 10 to 14 million people killed along with Jews. They are Slavs, Gypsies, handicapped people, and anyone who did not conform.

[SVPete]

Yep. Correct on both statements. The dems are already throwing the blacks under the bus in favor of the hispanics.

FYI for the dummies: The Nazis sent a lot of different people to the Konzentrationslagers. Like SVpete said, jews just happened to be, by far, the biggest group of people sent there.  Jews, gypsies, queers, lizzies, "enemies of the state", people that pissed off the local gestapo guy, etc. The Konzentrationslagers were their version of the Soviet gulags. Would not surprise me if Stalin got the idea from Hitler. For that matter, where do you think the nazis sent their lazy underclass that would not work such as yourselves, dummies?

And there were a bunch of queers in the upper echelon of the Nazi regime, dummie. Lots.

You made the point I was about to post. The Jews were not the only identifiable socio-ethnic group the Nazis sent to the camps, just the largest (AFAIK, I wouldn't mid being set straight on that). There was even some specialization among the concentration camps. One of the best known, Dachau, was mainly for political enemies.

Lenin's and Stalin's Gulags had their beginning about a decade before Hitler came into power, so I think the copy-catting went the other way.

[SVPete]

Somewhere I've read that Hermann G. was a turd-burglar, preferring young plump boys.
Sorry, can't cite any sources.  DUmpukes don't need them, why should I? 

I don't think he was a homosexual or bisexual, if that's your meaning. Per the 70s bio Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering was married twice, including having a daughter. He was also a drug addict: after a serious car accident (in the aftermath of the failed 1923 Beer Hall Putsch (?) ... going by distant memories) he got hooked on painkillers and didn't get off them until incarcerated before the Nuremberg trials. Goering could have been a very able leader (in government or industry), but a screwed up upbringing left him devoid of a moral compass that he never sought or found as an adult. Ironically, because Goering's mother had a decades-long affair with a Jewish man - even while married - Hermann Goering might have been half Jewish.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Would not surprise me if Stalin got the idea from Hitler.

Stalin was running his long before Hitler came to power, and long after he was gone, and over his considerably longer career made Hitler look like a piker in the murder business. 

The main differences were that Stalin's killings largely lacked a racial/ethnic component (Aside from the Ukrainians and Tatars), and it was technically possible to survive imprisonment in a Gulag, if you were lucky and sentenced to ten years or less.  A 'Tenner' was the normal sentence for just about anything, and once accused by the MVD or NKVD, conviction and sentencing were a foregone conclusion. 

Stalin mainly used a combination of hard labor and starvation to eliminate the 'Enemies of the State,' as opposed to killing them wholesale on arrival at the camps, though there were huge numbers of people who were simply shot.