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another_liberal (5,928 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025254142Who shot down the Malaysian airliner?Russia says it had no AA missile batteries stationed close enough to hit the plane. The separatists in Donetsk and Lugansk say they don't even have AA systems that can reach thirty thousand feet (the altitude at which the plane was flying). Ukraine did have high altitude capable AA missile batteries in range of the plane when it was shot down, and Kiev had declared that part of its airspace off limits to all but its own aircraft. Everyone says there is no way they did it, but the plane was lost. Who do you think is guilty? 109 votes, 27 passes | Time left: 1 days, 19 hours, 44 minutes Ukraine is guilty of downing the Malaysian airliner.7 (6%) Ukrainian separatists are guilty of downing the Malaysian airliner.93 (85%) Russia is guilty of downing the Malaysian airliner.7 (6%) The Malaysian airliner was lost due to some other, unknown reason.2 (2%) 27 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
SidDithers (33,012 posts) 9. Did you see what RT reported?...http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025252653 Sid
geek tragedy (39,470 posts) 134. jury results on that.Was President Putin's plane the intended target over eastern Ukraine? http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025252653 REASON FOR ALERT This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. COMMENTS Posting Russian state propaganda to push an utterly foul and insane conspiracy theory, in order to shelter a rightwing fascist government from criticism, is an insult to the victims as well as this site's collective intelligence. This is disruptive, and WAY over the top. JURY RESULTS A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Jul 17, 2014, 12:39 PM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT. Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT Explanation: Agreed, this post is propaganda. 295 people are dead, and they're posting CT "speculation." Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT Explanation: No explanation given Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: No explanation given Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT Explanation: No explanation given Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT Explanation: RT is an unreliable source Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: I've been seeing so much right-wing propaganda spewing from our very own MSM these past few weeks that's also an insult to other innocent victims (and posted with ease right here at DU) that I honestly can't agree with this alert. If we have to be insulted by bullshit coming from our own Western news sources regarding "mistakes" and the ruthlessness of the various parties waging "War" around the globe, I see no reason to view something coming from RT as any more over the top, disruptive, or insulting. My vote is to Leave It Alone. Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: Replies fixing the problem.
NutmegYankee (6,898 posts) 11. How the **** can someone think Ukraine shot it down?The rebels don't have an air force and the plane traveled over the country from west to east meaning they knew it couldn't be Russian. To believe such a thing is right up there with denial of Global Climate Change.
another_liberal (5,928 posts) 22. I don't follow you . . .Why do you think Ukraine didn't shoot the plane down?
another_liberal (5,928 posts) 54. I still think it was another Ukrainian screw up. One has to admit they haven't exactly had a spotless record in regard to only hitting what they intend to hit.
Agschmid (9,414 posts) 91. I'll just jump in here...Today's been an interesting day and throughout the day you have had several posts which were not really based in reality, here is a break down: First accusation of the US government being an active participant in what happened: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=848954 The first post where you assert the plane was shot down due to it being confused with Putins plane: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=848589 Double down: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=848644 Triple down: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=848708 Quadruple down: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025252653 Usually the quadruple down doesn't got so well, and it didn't today either. To assert that you aren't operating off a specific theory on this is ridiculous, especially now that more information has come to light. Your are entitled to your opinion, and hell you are even entitled to share your opinion over and over but don't get to be "holier than thou" when you get called on it.
another_liberal (5,928 posts) 31. And those transcripts came from who?If I am not mistaken our own NSA and military intelligence provided those transcripts. Aren't you even a little suspicious. Remember the transcripts of phone conversations which were supposed to prove Syria used sarin gas? Remember how they turn out to be edited and altered to give the desired impression?
Chan790 (16,730 posts) 60. Mossad doesn't make mistakes like this.Besides they've got better shit to do and bigger things on their plate right now. If this was Mossad, whoever they wanted dead would be dead and they wouldn't need to blow up a civvie plane to do it. That's not a criticism of you...I find it odd the amount of crap that gets boogiemanned onto Mossad here. Why never Shin Bet or Aman or Nativ? Israel has more than one scary-secret clandestine intelligence organization
joshcryer (47,554 posts) 42. Google cache of their claiming responsibility:http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fvk.com%2Fwall-57424472_7256 This was before they knew that it was a civilian plane, they just knew that they shot a plane down, and rushed to post the video and claim victory.
joshcryer (47,554 posts) 51. That's Strelkov's official feed.http://vk.com/strelkov_info He deleted the post. You can use Google translate to translate it. Amusing that you'd disclaim a source because it has Russian text, in a region of the world where Russian is the spoken language.
another_liberal (5,928 posts) 68. A poll won't decide anything, not at all.I just wanted to see how people sampled out this soon after the incident. It's a shame so many what to blame the separatists when all the evidence points to Kiev, but on the bright side very few people were ready to say they think it was Russia. That shows a good grasp of the obvious, at the very least.
geek tragedy (39,470 posts) 118. Did you see this one?http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014848337#post152 Since the plane was painted in Russian colors of white, red and blue . . . It was much more likely a Ukrainian fighter pilot who made the attack, mistaking the passenger jet for a Russian aircraft.I swear, this one must be a performance artist.
Response to Zutak (Original post)Thu Jul 17, 2014, 10:38 PMgraham4anything4HC45 (3,160 posts)2. The gun. Everyone would be alive without the gun. This story confuses me. So I pass on laying blame.
Response to Winston (Reply #3)Thu Jul 17, 2014, 10:45 PMgraham4anything4HC45 (3,160 posts)4. a missle is a big gun with big bullets. Without the big gun no deaths.
Response to Winston (Reply #5)Thu Jul 17, 2014, 10:52 PMgraham4anything4HC45 (3,160 posts)6. the people behind the gun are just props for the gun manufacturers, the weapon that destruct.a gun is manufactured to kill aka a weaponand today showed it is a weapon of mass destruction no matter which way one looks at itSome anonymous person had their finger on the trigger and pulled it and committed a mass murder of all those hundreds of people.Whether it was on purpose or it was an irresponsible twitchy finger and the wrong plane was shot down,in the end hundreds are now dead because of that.Without it, all the people would be alive right now and their families would not be crying.
another_liberal is a die hard Putin fan.
