primitives discuss women who shave; she-women squibble-squabble

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025196836

Oh my.

<<<senses a coincidence is about to happen.

davidn3600 (3,018 posts)    Fri Jul 4, 2014, 07:34 PM

Feminist professor offers extra credit to women who stop shaving legs and arm pits

Professor Breanne Fahs offers female students extra-credit if they “stop shaving their legs and underarms for ten weeks during the semester while keeping a journal to document their experiences.” For Fahs, who teaches women and gender studies, the purpose is to get students thinking critically about societal norms and gender roles.
 
A similar opportunity is available to men in Fahs’ classes who recieve extra credit for shaving all of their hair from the neck down.
 
One student, Stephanie Robinson, described it as a “life-changing experience“:

Many of my friends didn’t want to work out next to me or hear about the assignment, and my mother was distraught at the idea that I would be getting married in a white dress with armpit hair. I also noticed the looks on faces of strangers and people around campus who seemed utterly disgusted by my body hair. It definitely made me realize that if you’re not strictly adhering to socially prescribed gender roles, your body becomes a site for contestation and public opinion.
 
Men seemed to have an easier time with it since some degree of “manscaping” has become accepted, or even expected.
 
The norm of women shaving body hair dates back to an effort by Gillette to expand their market for razors. Starting around 1915, Gillette started a campaign “denouncing the (previously inoffensive) female underarm hair as ‘unsightly’, ‘masculine’ and ‘unclean’.” In the 1920s, they expanded their efforts to leg hair, glamorizing “a smooth, silky leg.”
 
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/07/04/3456646/arizona-professor-offers-extra-credit-to-female-students-who-stop-shaving-their-armpits/

A long thread, so only a few primitive comments--the redqueen primitive's a real bitch, but one reasonably assumes that's already common knowledge:

redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sat Jul 5, 2014, 12:59 PM

25. Did you read the part where a woman's friends didn't want to be seen with her?

Beauty norms are intended to appeal to the male gaze, but the implications of not complying with them goes far beyond just not pleasing random males.

Quantess (25,501 posts)    Sun Jul 6, 2014, 09:08 AM

70. Both men and women dress to please others of their own gender.

I have personally felt more pressure from other females regarding my fashion choices.
 
Same goes for men. For instance, beards. Guys seem to admire each other's beards but women in general aren't crazy about beards.

redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:15 PM

71. It does seem that much of the policing comes from members of our own gender.

It's interesting, but what's most interesting to me is how harsh the policing is for women.
 
If it was limited to admiring things people like it wouldnt be so compelling to me. It's the nasty hateful stuff, over something as meaningless as body hair, that makes me wonder wtf.

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redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sat Jul 5, 2014, 12:11 PM

24. Great idea. Looks like a lot of people are learning about how insidious beauty norms are

and also how harshly they're enforced for women.

redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sat Jul 5, 2014, 01:02 PM

26. Some of the replies to this thread are just... wtf.

MADem (102,354 posts)    Sat Jul 5, 2014, 06:40 PM

37. What is your objection, precisely?

The assignment by the teacher? The reaction? The cultural norms?

I am not surprised that there would be varying reactions to the teacher's extra credit project--I think that was the point, to challenge cultural paradigms.
 
How can people do any challenging if they do not discuss their honest feelings, which are a product of their cultural upbringing?

redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sat Jul 5, 2014, 07:09 PM

41. Not objection - observation.

This assignment is exposing the harsh reinforcement of one particular beauty norm. And for some reason, a lot of the replies are 'Well I do this or that' or 'Well I like blah blah blah'.
 
This has nothing to do with any individual's likes or dislikes with respect to body hair. Yet most of the replies are about just that. Seems to me to be a rather blatant side-stepping of the actual topic of the thread but... whatever.

MADem (102,354 posts)    Sun Jul 6, 2014, 04:57 AM

65. It's Equal Opportunity. It's requiring each gender to do the opposite of the "beauty norm."

The men are asked to shave everything from the neck down, and the women are asked to not shave anything.
 
And then they all have to keep a journal about it.

It's not a requirement for the class--it's extra credit.

I'm sure the journals the students are keeping have something to say about "likes or dislikes." I kind of think that's what the teacher was looking for--a personal reaction to going against a cultural paradigm, and how the students felt about it the longer they engaged in the practice.
 
I'll bet their first entries, once the fuzz got serious, or once the itching mandated another pass with the razor, the wax, whatever, sounded a lot like the "likes and dislikes" conversations here, along with complaints about how people are regarding them or how having to keep up with the "manscaping" makes them feel.
 
I think the whole point the teacher was going for was the feelings, the "likes and dislikes." Having to live every day going against the cultural paradigm is supposed to make the students think a bit more about the custom.

redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:21 PM

72. Why are you explaining the assignment to me?

Do you honestly think I needed to have you explain that?

So done discussing this with you.

And no, the assignment was to record EXPERIENCES. Its about gender norms. Not whether these people think its comfy or stinky or whatever the hell.

MADem (102,354 posts)    Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:48 PM

80. It sounded, to me, like you didn't read the article. Like you didn't even click on the link.

Stopped at the first sentence of the clip and immediately transitioned to UMBRAGE MODE.
 
So yes--it did, HONESTLY, sound like you needed some clarity there. You didn't even MENTION the other half of the assignment.
 
This IS General Discussion, you know--you're speaking to the entire board, not a select subset. Being rude and nasty and dismissive to people plays less well in the wider community--and I didn't say a single thing that merited you getting so shitty and nasty to me.
 
I guess you're the only person in the world who thinks that EXPERIENCES are separate from FEELINGS.

How interesting! How ... detached!

I feel sorry for you, frankly.

I certainly wouldn't want to go through life not feeling anything as a consequence of my life's experiences...but hey, that's just me. I enjoy all aspects of life and find it quite precious. The feelings that result from experiences make life worth living.
 
I guess being dismissive with some "so done discussing" snark is preferable to you than digging down on the topic. Being confrontational and angry is a great way to avoid breaking down an interesting assignment, or acknowledging that people at different stages of their lives, from differing cultural backgrounds, might have differing takes on how people might "experience" the assignment (and like it or not, that includes their reactions to it--dare I say, their "feeeeeelings").
 
It's just SO much easier to snark and run off than acknowledge that you may have misinterpreted someone's remarks. It's also so easy to think the worst of people--and you do that a lot. I'd say it's a failing on your part.
 
Now go have one of those swell days! Don't forget to take your righteous umbrage and ready offense with you, now! I have no need of it. You showed those evil haters at THINK PROGRESS a bit of what-for! Your work is done!

redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:50 PM

81. LOL... you feel sorry for me?

Haters at think progress?

What the ever loving **** are you talking about?

Seriously though, thanks for the splaining... quite topical

MADem (102,354 posts)    Sun Jul 6, 2014, 02:12 PM

86. I was right--you DIDN'T click the link.

Go do it now, and see where you end up.

I do feel sorry for you. Your prejudices overwhelm your ability to have a reasoned conversation.

redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sun Jul 6, 2014, 02:14 PM

87. You are on your own little planet aren't you?

I dunno what the hell makes you think you know what you're talking about but *******... Those are some seriously way out there ideas you've got there

MADem (102,354 posts)    Sun Jul 6, 2014, 02:41 PM

93. What a charming comment--complete with emoticons.

When you've got nothing, use put downs.

I know what I'm talking about because I actually read the article. It's obvious you didn't--or you did and didn't absorb the content.
 
I feel sorry for you--you're lashing out at everyone participating in this thread, almost as though you don't want anyone to have a view of the subject that doesn't match yours.
 
Why is that, I wonder?

redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sun Jul 6, 2014, 03:07 PM

95. Can you think of something else to say besides "I feel sorry for you"?

It was cute how you somehow developed this idea that I didn't read it, or didn't understand it, and proceed to explain it all to me .. but your condescending shit is tired and overdone.

MADem (102,354 posts)    Sun Jul 6, 2014, 03:15 PM

100. No, I can't--I do feel sorry for you. By your conduct I can see that you're pretty unhappy, and

you are projecting your unhappiness on me with insults, put downs, and snark.

The condescending person in this conversation is you--your POV is the way and the light, no one else has the right answers, save you.
 
And anyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid, wrong, tired, overdone, etc. No one can have an opinion except YOU, and if they dare to, you call them names--with "emoticons!" That'll show 'em!

redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sun Jul 6, 2014, 03:16 PM

101. Your projection and hyperbole are as stale as your condescension.

Well, it looks to me as if the redqueen primitive's moved into Top DUmmies of 2014 contention.
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MerryBlooms (3,050 posts)    Sat Jul 5, 2014, 06:30 PM

34. I guess I cared about this shaving crap when I was in middle school,

since then, no.

I do what I do, you do what you do, and everyone else does what they do.

Why is it worth giving a **** about what someone else shaves?

redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sat Jul 5, 2014, 07:10 PM

42. "Why is it worth giving a **** about what someone else shaves?" Exactly.

Why do people react with horror? Not just strangers but friends and loved ones?

This is the entire point of the assignment. Examining what fuels this kind of reaction toward females who defy gendered beauty norms.

MerryBlooms (3,050 posts)    Sat Jul 5, 2014, 07:49 PM

43. It's beyond

ridiculous, yet... every other month or so, another one of these idiotic posts gets posted. You'd think we were all older than 14ish, but who knows.

redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sat Jul 5, 2014, 07:59 PM

46. Again.

after which a graphic in which the redqueen primitive suggests the merry primitive "doesn't get it"

MerryBlooms (3,050 posts)    Sat Jul 5, 2014, 08:05 PM

48. Is that pic really what you ****ing meant to post to me?

You think this subject is over my head?

WTF?

redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sat Jul 5, 2014, 08:07 PM

49. The POINT went over your head.

This isn't a "stupid ****ing shaving post" this course is about GENDERED BEAUTY NORMS AND HOW THEY'RE ENFORCED FFS.

MerryBlooms (3,050 posts)    Sat Jul 5, 2014, 08:13 PM

50. I don't need you to teach me what the OP is about.

The point didn't go over my head and you can take your belittling bullshit attitude and shove it.

Go scream at an enemy.

redqueen (107,806 posts)    Sat Jul 5, 2014, 08:52 PM

53. But your "belittling bullshit attitude" about the assignment is just peachy ****ing keen, right?

Yep.  The redqueen bitch is now in contention.

[JohnnyReb]

Does the crazy DUmmie professor check the guys 'down there'?...and if she does, is that sexual assault?

Of course anything the DUmmie professor does to a male isn't sexual assault because we all know....only wyminz can be sexually assaulted.

[txradioguy]

ne student, Stephanie Robinson, described it as a “life-changing experience“:

Sounds like someone didn't have much of a life to begin with if that's the case.

[zeitgeist]

Years ago I ran across a picture of two bi something, topless, hairy, San Fran dykes with braided arm pits.  Mind bleach was required.  I still wake with nightmares.      I might have posted it on CU before the crash.   

[Delmar]

Response to davidn3600 (Original post)Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:56 PM
Brigid (14,988 posts)
82. OK, just call me Danielle, 'cause I'm going to step into the lion's den here:

Is this what people are paying perfectly good tuition money for these days?

Welcome to DU, Danielle.

[Ogre]

Response to davidn3600 (Original post)Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:56 PM
Brigid (14,988 posts)
82. OK, just call me Danielle, 'cause I'm going to step into the lion's den here:

Is this what people are paying perfectly good tuition money for these days?

Yep, and then bitch about how hard it is to repay their student loans, because the degree they received isn't worth jack shit!

[Carl]

The harpies sure are miserable in life.

[GOBUCKS]

Coach is the only man in Nebraska who's had a Brazilian wax.
http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=97058.0

[franksolich]

Coach is the only man in Nebraska who's had a Brazilian wax.
http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=97058.0

Oh now.

Per my usual policy on "R"-rated pieces, once it gets 100+ views in a public forum, I move it to a non-public forum, out of sight of the lurking primitives.

So if the primitives don't hurry up and read it, they'll never read it.