Guess who created Putin? We did. Because we were meanies.

[BannedFromDU]

Star Member Ken Burch (32,779 posts)

Face it..."The West" created Putin...and we're reaping what we've sown. Ummmmmmm...WTF?

In 1991, the Cold War was over(it had actually BEEN over since 1985, when Mikhail Gorbachev took over as head of the Soviet government and the CPSU, but let's leave that aside for a moment. Ummmmm....yeah. That's false, moron.

Gorbachev, as head of his country, did EVERYTHING the West demanded...and mainly did it voluntarily, would have done it even if the West hadn't demanded it. He reduced Soviet nuclear stockpiles...he avoided sending in the Red Army to save the dinosaur states in Eastern Europe(states that, despite the word "socialist" in their names, were actually right-wing nationalist dictatorships for all practical purposes), he ended most if not all human rights abuses IN the Soviet Union, allowed opposition groups to organize, did photo ops with Reagan where he allowed the Great Cowboyicator to gloat and claim credit for everything. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. If that was true, Reagn should be your idol, asshole.

But, rather than doing what our "side" SHOULD have done, simply stating that the Cold War was done and that from now on Russia and the U.S. would now be equal partners in creating a peaceful, prosperous world, our leaders(including Bill Clinton) insisted on claiming "victory". They insisted on making Russia play the role of a vanquished nation. They reduced Russia's standard of living, which wasn't that high to start with, to levels of mass impoverishment by imposing IMF austerity policies(policies under which the Russian government had to ask the IMF permission to make virtually ANY economic decision). And our leaders, over and over again, knowing full well the damage this would do, made the situation even worse by continually referring to the U.S. as "the world's ONLY remaining superpower".  Except for that little issue of a decades-old command and control economy, huh?

And in 1991, when Mikhail Gorbachev prevented the return of Stalinist/Brezhnevite rule by refusing to sign over power to those who had attempted to overthrow him and were holding the man and his family hostage, and were threatening to kill his whole family if he didn't do so, "the West" then humilliated Gorbachev even further by falsely declaring Boris Yeltsin, a right-wing drunk who staged meaningless and risk-free photo opportunities for the Western press by posing on a tank, to be the "hero" of the day.

This led to Gorbachev's resignation and Yeltsin's elevation to the head of the Russian government, a position he held no qualifications for and in which he had no achievements whatsoever. But it was Yeltsin, in a rare moment of sobriety, who named Vladimir Putin, a man who would otherwise never have gone into politics, as his successor. And the conditions that the West had imposed in Russia gave Putin, a fascist, antigay, most likely antisemitic and horribly misogynistic thug(his attitudes towards women can largely be seen in his persecution of ***** Riot over a harmless, peaceful protest)the chance to create what has now become one of the ugliest dictatorships the world has ever seen.

This didn't have to happen. It could all have been avoided. But the West had to gloat...had to humiliate Russia...had to impoverish the Russian people...had to make democracy synonymous in their minds with disgrace and misery.

It's all the fault of OUR leaders. They caused this, and, in electing them, all Americans bear part of the blame.

Will the real lesson...don't end wars by insisting on vanquishing and subjugating the other side...EVER be learned?

Or will we keep doing this over and over again...as we did with Germany after World War I...as we did to Russia after 1991.

I honestly cannot stop tittering at this pathetic effort to blame all geopolitical issues on the US. I'm guess Putin could fart in an elevator and Burch would say "Excuse me."


    I'm sorry, guys. I lost interest. This is the dumbest thing I have ever seen on DU, and I am deadly serious.

    Today has been a GREAT day on DU. First Pittsmas, and now this. WOW.

    Thanks, DU.

[delilahmused]

Is Ken Burch related to Ben Burch?

Cindie

[98ZJUSMC]

    I'm sorry, guys. I lost interest. This is the dumbest thing I have ever seen on DU, and I am deadly serious.

Yeah, quite dumb.  That's the *ahem* "academic" view of the years 85/86-91.  IOW, complete trash.  They simply cannot admit the obvious.  Ronaldus Maximus spanked the Soviets and ....we won.  He drove their already creaking economy into the gutter and gave the US Military the tools to rebuild strong.  Done.  Over with.  Nothing we could have done, even completely financing their post-Soviet economy, would have made any difference.

Is Ken Burch related to Ben Burch?

Cindie

Heh...I was wondering the same thing. 

[Vagabond]

Wow so the West does things and everybody else only reacts to it.  Bill Clinton and company did interfere, but not in the way Ken thinks.  The Eastern European countries wanted free and the USSR could no longer hold them.  Most of them wanted some variation of the US constitution and Clinton and his merry band of fools prevented that. 

Russia, the old USSR, tried to defraud the banks and as a result nobody except the IMF would loan them anything for about seven years.  It had nothing to do with the west doing a victory lap and everything to do with the Russian oligarchs thinking they could bully capitalists.   They learned their lessons very well.  They also got lucky that fuel prices escalated when it did or they would have defaulted again.  Russia's economy simply isn't that big.

[Carl]

A person would think that just by accident Ken would have gotten one fact correct but have to give him credit...out of that entire idiotic screed he managed to never get within a universes distance of even a grain of truth.

[67 Rover]

Star Member Ken Burch (32,779 posts)

Face it..."The West" created Putin...and we're reaping what we've sown. Ummmmmmm...WTF?

In 1991, the Cold War was over(it had actually BEEN over since 1985, when Mikhail Gorbachev took over as head of the Soviet government and the CPSU, but let's leave that aside for a moment. Ummmmm....yeah. That's false, moron.

Gorbachev, as head of his country, did EVERYTHING the West demanded...and mainly did it voluntarily, would have done it even if the West hadn't demanded it. He reduced Soviet nuclear stockpiles...he avoided sending in the Red Army to save the dinosaur states in Eastern Europe(states that, despite the word "socialist" in their names, were actually right-wing nationalist dictatorships for all practical purposes), he ended most if not all human rights abuses IN the Soviet Union, allowed opposition groups to organize, did photo ops with Reagan where he allowed the Great Cowboyicator to gloat and claim credit for everything. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. If that was true, Reagn should be your idol, asshole.

But, rather than doing what our "side" SHOULD have done, simply stating that the Cold War was done and that from now on Russia and the U.S. would now be equal partners in creating a peaceful, prosperous world, our leaders(including Bill Clinton) insisted on claiming "victory". They insisted on making Russia play the role of a vanquished nation. They reduced Russia's standard of living, which wasn't that high to start with, to levels of mass impoverishment by imposing IMF austerity policies(policies under which the Russian government had to ask the IMF permission to make virtually ANY economic decision). And our leaders, over and over again, knowing full well the damage this would do, made the situation even worse by continually referring to the U.S. as "the world's ONLY remaining superpower".  Except for that little issue of a decades-old command and control economy, huh?

And in 1991, when Mikhail Gorbachev prevented the return of Stalinist/Brezhnevite rule by refusing to sign over power to those who had attempted to overthrow him and were holding the man and his family hostage, and were threatening to kill his whole family if he didn't do so, "the West" then humilliated Gorbachev even further by falsely declaring Boris Yeltsin, a right-wing drunk who staged meaningless and risk-free photo opportunities for the Western press by posing on a tank, to be the "hero" of the day.

This led to Gorbachev's resignation and Yeltsin's elevation to the head of the Russian government, a position he held no qualifications for and in which he had no achievements whatsoever. But it was Yeltsin, in a rare moment of sobriety, who named Vladimir Putin, a man who would otherwise never have gone into politics, as his successor. And the conditions that the West had imposed in Russia gave Putin, a fascist, antigay, most likely antisemitic and horribly misogynistic thug(his attitudes towards women can largely be seen in his persecution of ***** Riot over a harmless, peaceful protest)the chance to create what has now become one of the ugliest dictatorships the world has ever seen.

This didn't have to happen. It could all have been avoided. But the West had to gloat...had to humiliate Russia...had to impoverish the Russian people...had to make democracy synonymous in their minds with disgrace and misery.

It's all the fault of OUR leaders. They caused this, and, in electing them, all Americans bear part of the blame.

Will the real lesson...don't end wars by insisting on vanquishing and subjugating the other side...EVER be learned?

Or will we keep doing this over and over again...as we did with Germany after World War I...as we did to Russia after 1991.

[BannedFromDU]

Yeah, quite dumb. 

     Hyperbole aside - that is the dumbest thing ever put on DU.

[JohnnyReb]

Weakness created Putin.....our weakness.

[BannedFromDU]

     Well, 0bama DID say he'd have more flexibility after the election...

     

[JohnnyReb]

     

The Obamacare cure for head lice.