Power struggle: Green energy versus a grid that's not ready

[Ptarmigan]

Power struggle: Green energy versus a grid that's not ready
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-grid-renewables-20131203,0,1019786.story#axzz2mQZL8PYP

WASHINGTON — In a sprawling complex of laboratories and futuristic gadgets in Golden, Colo., a supercomputer named Peregrine does a quadrillion calculations per second to help scientists figure out how to keep the lights on.

Peregrine was turned on this year by the U.S. Energy Department. It has the world's largest "petascale" computing capability. It is the size of a Mack truck.

Its job is to figure out how to cope with a risk from something the public generally thinks of as benign — renewable energy.

Green energy is a joke. 

[JohnnyReb]

Power struggle: Green energy versus a grid that's not ready
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-grid-renewables-20131203,0,1019786.story#axzz2mQZL8PYP

Green energy is a joke. 

I see an opportunity here....we get some green beer bottles (or any green bottle) and fill it with water, cap the top with a cap that looks like an electrical receptacle, label it "Green Energy" and sell it to DUmmies.

Hey, if Al Gore can sell paper carbon credits to the idiots, we ought to be able to sell "Green Energy" in a bottle.

[DLR Pyro]

WASHINGTON — In a sprawling complex of laboratories and futuristic gadgets in Golden, Colo., a supercomputer named Peregrine does a quadrillion calculations per second to help scientists figure out how to keep the lights on.

Peregrine was turned on this year by the U.S. Energy Department. It has the world's largest "petascale" computing capability. It is the size of a Mack truck.

Its job is to figure out how to cope with a risk from something the public generally thinks of as benign — renewable energy.

how much energy is being consumed by this mega computer that is trying to figure out how to make energy?

[NHSparky]

Ding ding ding...bingo.  We look at silly shit like CFL bulbs, mindless of the environmental damage just making the things does.

How much power does a cell phone use?  Before you answer that question, consider that charging the phone is only a very small portion of the energy involved.  Think about the cell towers, switching centers, server farms, all of which must be powered for that cool toy of yours to work.

"Green" energy is anything but in the long run, but because there are no emissions and no "scary nook-you-lur" stuff that can easily be seen (out of sight, out of mind, right kids?) it holds sway right now.

However, while places like CA, etc., are relying more and more heavily on it to supplement their needs, that's (IMHO) all it'll be--SUPPLEMENTAL.  It simply isn't "dense" enough, nor is it nearly reliable enough, to replace our primary sources of coal, gas/oil, and nuclear.

[thundley4]

Ding ding ding...bingo.  We look at silly shit like CFL bulbs, mindless of the environmental damage just making the things does.

How much power does a cell phone use?  Before you answer that question, consider that charging the phone is only a very small portion of the energy involved.  Think about the cell towers, switching centers, server farms, all of which must be powered for that cool toy of yours to work.

"Green" energy is anything but in the long run, but because there are no emissions and no "scary nook-you-lur" stuff that can easily be seen (out of sight, out of mind, right kids?) it holds sway right now.

However, while places like CA, etc., are relying more and more heavily on it to supplement their needs, that's (IMHO) all it'll be--SUPPLEMENTAL.  It simply isn't "dense" enough, nor is it nearly reliable enough, to replace our primary sources of coal, gas/oil, and nuclear.

I've seen several environmentalists claim that nuclear power is the best source of electricity as far as environmental effects go.  They only produce steam emissions, and all the radioactive materials were already present in nature anyway.

[NHSparky]

and all the radioactive materials were already present in nature anyway.

Not really.  The U-238/U-235 that is pulled out of the ground is actually pretty mild, considering their incredibly long (4.47 BILLION years for U238 and 700 million years for U235) half-lives.

The fission products they create can get kind of interesting, but most are contained within the spent fuel.  Some materials in the core are activated by neutron bombardment (Co-60, t 1/2 = 5 1/4 years) being high among them.  N-16 is also a neutron-activated isotope, but decays to Oxygen 16 with a half-life somewhere around 7 seconds.

Yeah, it's the Wiki, but it's a pretty decent lay explanation of the fission fragment curve:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fission_products_(by_element)

But to be fair to what you said, yes, in about 500-1000 years, the waste we have will have decayed to the point it's less radioactive than what we pulled out of the ground.