It's Thanksgiving; so why not have a "DU discusses pr0n" thread?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Another porn thread.

It's amazing the people who tell us sex should be free, unfettered and pleasurable seem to make it a complicated, aggravating and burdensomely governed by overly complicated rules.


PhDDs (who is poor and unbangable) tells us what's wrong with American capitalism and porn.

BainsBane (20,352 posts)

4. I think there are two fundamentally different wordviews
 
Last edited Thu Nov 28, 2013, 06:03 AM - Edit history (2)

One based on individual liberty and the other on the social good. In my view, the problem with placing such high value on the individual's rights is that it elevates those with wealth and status above those without, which often tend to be women and people of color. Capitalism, and hence the US form of government, is based on the rights of the individual to acquire property, wealth, and privilege with little regard to those affected as a result. I see porn much like any capitalist industry, not dissimilar to gun manufacturers. Those who own companies and can afford to purchase goods assume their rights are universal. Of course they are not. They are the product of varying degrees of wealth and privilege that exceed the status of workers in those industries and those hurt by the violence both engender. In my view, Ignoring the social good in favor of the individual's liberty leads to even further inequality and exploitation. Socialism envisions a greater role for the state to correct such imbalances, but of course this is not a socialist country. Individual liberty, wielded disproportionately by the privileged, trumps the social good. Capitalism requires such a conception of individual rights in order to justify the accumulation of capital and exploitation of labor integral to the system.

Even those without significant wealth or status vigorously defend the rights of the individual because they have been taught those values, which ultimately serve to justify capitalist accumulation and inequality. Or they defend the individual rights they see as benefiting them. For example, many here insist rape porn is protected by the First Amendment while rejecting the idea that money equals speech. Some insist the 2nd Amendment is inviolate while others reject that notion. Despite such differences, all of these conceptions of rights center around the individual because they come from the US constitution, which is the quintessential liberal document. That is, liberal in its classical sense, as the political corollary of capitalism.

Access to brutal porn is framed in terms of individual liberty. As with all rights based on the individual, it inevitably overlooks consequences to the greater society.

stevenleser (16,368 posts)

11. I understand what you are trying to say, I just think tying 1st amendment to Laissez-fairism
 
which is essentially what your comment attempts to do, and saying they are both the same kind of selfish individual rights stuff doesn't work as a construct.

A large percentage of the most anti-capitalist people you can find would be very much in favor of free speech. I think most of those folks who participate in DU's Occupy group would fall under this category.

lumberjack_jeff (26,235 posts)

28. Their entire argument is inherently heteronormative.
 
Last edited Thu Nov 28, 2013, 01:04 PM - Edit history (2)

Does gay erotica/porn exploit the performers?

No, because absent a male/female interaction, there are no victims. Male performers aren't victims in gay porn because men aren't victims. Female perfomers in lesbian porn aren't victims because the customers aren't exploiters/victimizers.

If people would make their case without that fundamental assumption, they'd be worth listening to. Unfortunately, every single thread on the topic suffers from that same basic flaw.

... this thread very much included. Why is "feminism" the only appropriate dimension against which to evaluate the merits of porn?

Here's a bold, novel and unasked question: is it good for men?

I'm generally supportive of people's right to choose, and their right to free speech. I am at the same time sympathetic to people's right to a rewarding, safe and healthy workplace, and to be free from commercial exploitation by selling them arguably unhealthy products.

I see porn as an industry in pretty much the same way I see the industry of e-cigarettes. It's hard to see the customers who use them as exploiters of the people who sell 'em.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024104107

[Karin]

   

[Skul]

As with a majority of PhDD's, is remarkably ignorant of life.

[vesta111]

As with a majority of PhDD's, is remarkably ignorant of life.

True, when a sea port town for the military passed a law that the bars make their dancers cover up, no nudity or titty bars,  it took just a few months to watch the rate of rapes start to climb.

Then the Gay bars moved in,   as right or wrong I was told that as Clinton said, a BJ is not sex or cheating on ones wife.

What the heck do people expect, put 5,000 young and sexually charged men aboard a floater for 6-8 months when the ship hits port, one can almost smell the hormones filling the air.   Really, when the crew hits the street 95% of them will have a hard on a cat can't scratch it.

These bars and clubs help keep the tortestone down and give the men and boys a much needed release.

 

[USA4ME]

What I find funny are how liberals get into these "deep discussions" on topics like "individual liberty vs the social good" and they go hundreds of posts with point and counter-point as though the discussion is some type of heavy intellectual exercise.

Let me explain something to you, primitives: The topics you discuss in the way you discuss them are void of any thought at all. None of you are intelligent, and you really don't realize just how stupid you look trying to pretend you are. You blather on for hours on end about topics of which you can't conceive even the most basic of understanding as though you have the ability to arrive at some deeper meaning. In reality, you're just a joke.

.

[Ptarmigan]

Looks like PhDD is trying to be DOTY. 

[JohnnyReb]

Those having the least sex seem to talk the most about it.....somebody lay the bitch.....please.

[BlueStateSaint]

Those having the least sex seem to talk the most about it.....somebody lay the bitch.....please.

Yup--it's a cry for help.