Nutcase nadin Explains World War Two

[GOBUCKS]

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 12:17 AM
nadinbrzezinski (125,259 posts)
A few notes about if we do not intervene now, well what about FDR and the Holocaust argument
forget Goowin's law... it is not historically accurate.

 
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023540472

I'm pretty sure the DUmmies will be able to forget "Goowin's law"... whatever that is.

Anyway, the nutcase then proceeds with endless boring quotes from the FDR archives and the Washington Post. You can go to the link if you really want to read them.

Then she closes with a classic nadin editorial. I challenge anyone to decipher it, especially the first paragraph.

Every time a DUmmy like Doug Bulna, or Lady Freedom, or Dennis the Menace pops up, the crazy bald dwarf comes back to put them away like Whack-A-Mole.

She's showing what a true Top DUmmy is made of:
 

This debate has been raging since 1945. This is precisely why I consider World War II an accidental just war that purely by accident tripped into the defense of the defenseless and all that put in code as early as the sixteenth century with the Just War Doctrine of Grotius. And while we might like to remember the grand honorable end of the holocaust and the saving of millions, it was purely accidental.

The policies we followed after the war were almost as atrocious as well. And I mean the almost part. We did help a lot of people at the Displaced Person Centers, and we fed and saved thousands. even hundreds of thousands, at military hospitals. But from the sheer POV of real politik, it was not what we did out of humanitarian reasons.
 
So if you are going to use, but, we fought Hitler to save the Jews... please, pick up a few books, and learn some history. I know legends and the American Myth are much simpler, and easier to digest, but we are not the good guys because we want to be the good guys, or the city on the hill, or the beacon of freedom, or whatever myth is in fashion this week. We might be, by accident every so often... but wars are not fought, never have been fought, for humanitarian reasons purely. There is more to the onion, and it is high time people learn to peel it.

All you people have to stop saying we fought Hitler to save the Jews! All of you! It's all I ever hear! Stop it!

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #10)
Tue Aug 27, 2013, 01:06 AM
pnwmom (46,032 posts)

11. So the question is still on the table. Should we have entered the war sooner
in an effort to save the lives that we knew were being lost every day? If we had intervened sooner, could we have saved millions of lives?

Once again, nadin demonstrates why she is so beloved at the DUmp:

Response to pnwmom (Reply #11)
Tue Aug 27, 2013, 01:10 AM
nadinbrzezinski (125,259 posts)

12. We did not know of the holocaust until 1942
When activists managed to make their way from Warsaw (the Ghetto) to London.

Intelligence officials, both British and American, determined the stories to be too fantastic, unbelievable. How do you act to stop something you don't believe is happening? In your imagination you might be able to change the relevant timeline.
 
Those of us who are aware of history know otherwise.

Regardless, I find your use of the holocaust for a political end...disgusting. So, I will ask again, when are you enlisting? I will personally drive you, or your kin, to the recruiter.

[Airwolf]

There are more errors  in her post then at a Cleveland Indians game. No one knew about the Holocaust till we got to the camps in 1945. If the Governments had known before hand then the great liberal idol that was FDR wouldn't be so now.

[Tucker]

This debate has been raging since 1945. This is precisely why I consider World War II an accidental just war that purely by accident tripped into the defense of the defenseless and all that put in code as early as the sixteenth century with the Just War Doctrine of Grotius. And while we might like to remember the grand honorable end of the holocaust and the saving of millions, it was purely accidental.

My head hurts.

[Big Dog]

The Master's thesis of DU's trained hysterian: World War II: The Accidental War.

Maybe she found a telegram from Hitler to Stalin, saying "Oops, my bad. Dolph."

[RWKindaGuy]

alcibiades_mystery (29,039 posts)

18. Ignorant

The Holocaust, as we understand it, did not really begin until summer 1941 (after the kick-off of Barbarossa), and the Holocaust as systematic destruction in the death camps did not begin until late 1942, and most of the killing happened in 1943-1944. Hell, the Wannsee Conference didn't take place until January 1942. The Germans themselves hadn't decided on how to complete the "task" until at least then. Prior to that, it was the 'Holocaust by Bullets" on the eastern Front, Babi Yar and countless other special "Aktions," and the US government was well aware of these, as were the Russians, who had their own problems.
 
As far as the more general Holocaust, of course historians date that much earlier, but the mass killing begin after Barbarossa.
 
Not only are you the one using the Holocaust for political ends, you're doing so ignorantly. You don't even know what you're talking about. And your interlocutor has outmaneuvered you anyway, asking the correct question, which you are unable to answer; wouldn't your very argument suggest that earlier intervention - and intervention for humanitarian reasons - is better? You seem not to understand even the consequences of your own observation, however ignorant it may be.

Off to the iggy list with you,  How dare you contradict me and insinuate my ignorance.

[98ZJUSMC]

This debate has been raging since 1945. This is precisely why I consider World War II an accidental just war that purely by accident tripped into the defense of the defenseless and all that put in code as early as the sixteenth century with the Just War Doctrine of Grotius. And while we might like to remember the grand honorable end of the holocaust and the saving of millions, it was purely accidental.

O .o ?

Not a frickin' clue.

The policies we followed after the war were almost as atrocious as well. And I mean the almost part. We did help a lot of people at the Displaced Person Centers, and we fed and saved thousands. even hundreds of thousands, at military hospitals. But from the sheer POV of real politik, it was not what we did out of humanitarian reasons.

Huh?
 

So if you are going to use, but, we fought Hitler to save the Jews... please, pick up a few books, and learn some history. I know legends and the American Myth are much simpler, and easier to digest, but we are not the good guys because we want to be the good guys, or the city on the hill, or the beacon of freedom, or whatever myth is in fashion this week. We might be, by accident every so often... but wars are not fought, never have been fought, for humanitarian reasons purely. There is more to the onion, and it is high time people learn to peel it.

Advice from the ignorant to the stupid.  It's no wonder it comes out as gibberish.

please, pick up a few books, and learn some history.

Hysterian half-wit, heal thyself.  

Not only are you the one using the Holocaust for political ends, you're doing so ignorantly. You don't even know what you're talking about.

You come across as somewhat surprised.  

Those of us who are aware of history know otherwise.

 

[98ZJUSMC]

The Master's thesis of DU's trained hysterian: World War II: The Accidental War.

Maybe she found a telegram from Hitler to Stalin, saying "Oops, my bad. Dolph."

   

Accidental Crusade in Europe.

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 01:10 AM
nadinbrzezinski (125,259 posts)

12. We did not know of the holocaust until 1942
When activists managed to make their way from Warsaw (the Ghetto) to London.

Somehow, this is going to tie in with the Blobs' purported relations from WW II.  I just know it.  They will have single-handedly notified the world of the Holocaust.

Quote
Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #10)
Tue Aug 27, 2013, 01:06 AM
pnwmom (46,032 posts)

11. So the question is still on the table. Should we have entered the war sooner
in an effort to save the lives that we knew were being lost every day? If we had intervened sooner, could we have saved millions of lives?

Why not gaBillions!!!!11111!!

Since you have absolutely no idea of the logistical challenges of force projection across an ocean onto a hostile, well-defended shore, I will keep my answer succinct.

No, stupid.

[franksolich]

Oh my.

The cousin doesn't know history nearly as well as she thinks she does, and it should be doubly embarrassing for her because it's her history.

.....put in code as early as the sixteenth century with the Just War Doctrine of Grotius.

Uh, no, not at all, dear cousin.

The concept and definition of a "just war" is to be found in rather well-known ancient Hebraic writings; Grotius was at least three thousand years after this.

But of course the cousin, who thinks she's smarter than God, smarter than all those of her people who came before her, probably doesn't pay attention to her own history.

[franksolich]

<<<knows more about history than the cousin does.

nadin can kiss <<<ass.

[vesta111]

 

Accidental Crusade in Europe.

Somehow, this is going to tie in with the Blobs' purported relations from WW II.  I just know it.  They will have single-handedly notified the world of the Holocaust.


Why not gaBillions!!!!11111!!

Since you have absolutely no idea of the logistical challenges of force projection across an ocean onto a hostile, well-defended shore, I will keep my answer succinct.

No, stupid.

Bull shit, after this inhumane war of genocide it was only the invention of the camera that showed the world what humanity was capable of.

The aftermath of the war, what to do with the displaced Jews that had survived the camps. ?

What happened if these people  went home to claim their homes land and goods others now had.  
Europe now feared the displaced Jews from wanting their homes and land back.  Had they gone home as Helen Tomas suggested and demanded their land back----That would have been interesting.

So the world got together to find a safe place for the Jew survivors to settle.    Where could that be, no country in Africa would take them in or give them any part of their country.     America was not about to turn it's state over to the Jews.

Finally Great Britton found a state that was costing them money, out in the desert with nothing to benefit them.     A waste of money to defend miles of sand.

Aha , a land to go to and die in. Great idea for the peoples that did not understand the Jewish mind.

What a surprise to the Palestine's  who saw the desert that for 500 years being a lump of sand begin to flower, Trees by the millions planted to bring in the rain.     Gardens planted to yield food and the children going to school to learn how to irrigate the land, and blind folded put together a machine gun to protect the crops.

One has to take sides or remain responsible for what either side does.




      

[DumbAss Tanker]

This debate has been raging since 1945. This is precisely why I consider World War II an accidental just war that purely by accident tripped into the defense of the defenseless and all that put in code as early as the sixteenth century with the Just War Doctrine of Grotius. And while we might like to remember the grand honorable end of the holocaust and the saving of millions, it was purely accidental.

Honestly it makes pretty good sense compared to most of her writing, aside using 'Accidental' or 'Accident' to a ridiculous degree, where it might have fit once at the start and have been better replaced with 'Incidental' at the end.  Her reference to Grotius and the "Just war" doctrine as a rationale for initiating hostilities under international law is surprisingly literate for her, I'm sure she lifted that one from Wiki, after recasting it into her own unique brand of Pidgin.

Roosevelt went to great lengths to try and promote war with Germany prior to December 1941, but it was almost entirely to go in on the side of England (And after June 1941, the Soviet Union, as sevveral of his most trusted advisers were actually more for the Commies than for the UK).  The necessity for the overt and covert fun and games was obviated when Hitler decided to declare war on us instead, right after Pearl Harbor.  His reasons for wanting to go to war really had jack shit to do with the Holocaust, which didn't enter the industrial-grade extermination phase until long after the war train had left the station.  On the other hand, it's also pretty clear that the inner circles of both the US and UK governments knew something of the sort was going on long before the camps were liberated, certainly not later than early 1944, but they already had their maximum effort going against Germany at that point anyway, so it really didn't make any difference in plans since the resources were already fully committed.

[Vagabond]

I've heard WWII called the unnecessary war.  Had the UK and France been willing to slap down Hitler when remilitarized the Rhineland then maybe the wider war could have been avoided.  Of course that's just a guess really, all of the labor unions in western Europe were foursquare behind the Nazi party and actively used work slowdowns and stoppages to slow military effectiveness against Germany.

What's also lost is that the Poles did figure out how to fight the Germans.  They tried to tell the French and the British but got ignored until it was too late.

[Ptarmigan]

I've heard WWII called the unnecessary war.  Had the UK and France been willing to slap down Hitler when remilitarized the Rhineland then maybe the wider war could have been avoided.  Of course that's just a guess really, all of the labor unions in western Europe were foursquare behind the Nazi party and actively used work slowdowns and stoppages to slow military effectiveness against Germany.

What's also lost is that the Poles did figure out how to fight the Germans.  They tried to tell the French and the British but got ignored until it was too late.

There was appeasement by the United Kingdom before World War II under Neville Chamberlain.

[vesta111]

I've heard WWII called the unnecessary war.  Had the UK and France been willing to slap down Hitler when remilitarized the Rhineland then maybe the wider war could have been avoided.  Of course that's just a guess really, all of the labor unions in western Europe were foursquare behind the Nazi party and actively used work slowdowns and stoppages to slow military effectiveness against Germany.

What's also lost is that the Poles did figure out how to fight the Germans.  They tried to tell the French and the British but got ignored until it was too late.

Yes, but the Poles had not much to fight the Germans and the tanks with but their Horse Calvary.

The French people, not the government, went underground to fight the Germans and to aid others that the Germans attacked.  The French underground and its brave people saved the lives of  many an American, British and Canadian fighter.

Poland gave up as a country but Warsaw fought on for weeks against the Germans.

This was a shock to the people of Europe , in 6-8 WEEKS the Germans had rolled in and subjugated
Millions of people.

I am wondering today if those in the ME will not take a page from history and repeat it.

True the terrain is different, miles of nothing to the next city, but can it be done today ?

[DumbAss Tanker]

Yes, but the Poles had not much to fight the Germans and the tanks with but their Horse Calvary.

This is a commonly-repeated myth, the Polish Army and Air Force were no match for the Wehrmacht, but they weren't exactly putzes, either.  The German tanks of the period weren't the invincible sleek beasts of 1943, and although heavily outnumbered, the Poles had a couple of tank brigades of their own and light antitank artillery that could and did inflict serious losses on the Germans, serious enough in fact that post-War German senior officer memoirs noted they probably would've been dead meat if the French and English had actually attacked instead of settling in for the Phony War.  They couldn't successfully contest the air after the first couple of days, and the Luftwaffe's air superiority was forcing defeat on them inexorably, but the thing that actually made Polish resistance collapse was the stab in the back by Stalin, and invasion from the East by a Red Army that was just as mechanized and even larger than the German one in the West.

Polish infantry weapons were about on a par with the German ones, in fact the MG42 which became the Germans' world-class general purpose machinegun (With slight modifications, still in use to this day) was a Polish design they took over after the conquest.  Polish cavalry did charge into the teeth of the Wehrmacht's machineguns...not because they expected to win in some half-witted medieval way as the misinformed myth goes, but because they would rather die in battle rather than be humiliated by surrendering.  They deserve to be honored for their valor, not scorned for their futility.

[Wineslob]

Next up: Uff Da! or ...................something..............

[seahorse513]

gnads, couldn't explain her way out of a paper bag!!

[Airwolf]

gnads, couldn't explain her way out of a paper bag!!

But she wears one well, for her size that is.

[franksolich]

But she wears one well, for her size that is.

But oh, think of how many trees it took, to make the paper for that bag.

[Skul]

Next up: Uff Da! or ...................something..............

Uff Da, is when you drop the lefse on the floor.  

They deserve to be honored for their valor, not scorned for their futility.

Amen, to that.