Celtic primitive afraid a home-made commode might explode

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11282587

Oh my.

IrishAyes (1,842 posts)   Sun Aug 4, 2013, 08:59 PM

I've asked this question in other threads with no success

But hope maybe someone here will know where I can find a practical, economical way to build a solar powered incinerator toilet (Incinolets cost in the thousands), mostly for disaster preparedness. I spent days searching the internet w/o any luck. I'm well versed in composting toilets but want something that would be easier for a little old lady to maintain if that's what I am when and if I need it. I no longer live in the outback but retired to a tiny MidWest town with very few restrictions, I guess partly because most lots are a quarter acre. To many from more congested areas that qualifies as 'country' from what I hear.

Tuesday Afternoon (46,673 posts)    Sun Aug 4, 2013, 09:17 PM

1. a quarter acre = country ?!

news to me but, good luck on your toilet. I have no idea about it but, will give this thread a little kick.

IrishAyes (1,842 posts)    Sun Aug 4, 2013, 09:54 PM

2. Thanks

As to rural or not, a lot depends on perspective. I visited quarter acre horse 'farms' in Connecticut. A hardcore urban dweller might find that spacious, whereas I came close to marrying a man who felt a bit crowded on less than 1K acres. I myself prefer living in heavily wooded mountainous areas out of sight or sound of other 'steads. But I'm too old for that now. Couldn't afford to retire back to L.A. or NYC if I wanted to. So this suits as well as my pocketbook allowed. My first choice would've been back in Calais, ME, the closest to heaven on earth anywhere. But it's too expensive for me to live well there now. So here I am, where I snagged a classic fixer at auction for $14,500. Because it's 100 years old, the taxes are only $180 a year.

So.....a quarter of an acre makes a farm in Connecticut?

For some reason, that doesn't surprise me the least.

Flaxbee (12,723 posts)    Sun Aug 4, 2013, 10:31 PM

4. wow - that sounds like quite a deal for $14.5!

I love the mountains and the beach, but I don't want to tie every waking moment of my current life and future to an astronomical mortgage, so I've been trying to find comfortable small towns with older, well-built homes just waiting to be fixed up... I grew up along the coast in southern California, and while I yearn for that kind of place, I just don't want to make the sacrifice required to live there ...
 
Anyway. My husband might know how to do what you're interested in - I'll have to ask. He's a very creative engineering-type person and extremely adept at unique ways of doing things... let me ask him and get back to you. Might take me a while because he's swamped, but I will cut and paste your question into an email and circle back around in a bit.
 
Are you looking to build one yourself, or have one built based on a schematic?

IrishAyes (1,842 posts)    Sun Aug 4, 2013, 10:57 PM

5. Well, if I built the thing it might explode

Unless it were very simple to make. However, I do know quite a few affordable and creative craftsmen around here who are always looking for work. My Amish contractor likes to joke that the way his people catch deer is to sneak up behind and build a barn around them.
 
Unfortunately economy often comes tied to less desirable aspects as well, such as what to me was a completely alien culture. After almost 8 years the locals seem to be getting a little more used to me and vice verse. You can't move to such a place as this looking to make a living either unless you have a high tech telecommuting situation. But for a retiree on a budget, possessed of more stubborness than $, it sure beats the hell out of a studio apartment in the grandest city on earth. What good are city amenities if you can't afford anything and have to live in a rabbit warren?
 
While you research places, I'd recommend podunk.com and Sperling's best places for all sorts of stats on every zip code in the country. Doesn't tell you much about the culture, of course. Some small towns are indeed friendly but I doubt any in the affordable areas are liberal meccas. This is pure RedNeckLand, and they don't cotton to furriners - meaning anyone not born and raised within 5 or 10 miles. My particular little flyspeck town in fact openly prides itself on vicious xenophobia, and there are 2 general factions still fighting amongst themselves like the Hatfields and McCoys. During the Civil War all the area churches shut down because gunfire didn't stop for worship services.
 
Seemed like half of them wanted to run me out of town on a rail the minute I got here, but I bite back when my Irish is up, which it frequently was then. I never saw a more ignorant, nosey bunch of people in my life! But I told them I didn't need their permission or blessing to live where I pleased and that they'd find me a tough nut to crack if they ever tried. Considering that I came here with 2 giant chows that scared the hell out of most people just by staring at them, I managed to settle in eventually and now there are several people who can be counted on to be rather nice when they see me coming. You'd think none of them had ever seen a real live damnYankee before. Especially not one who went where and did what she pleased without asking permission, so long as it was legal.
 
What I'm trying to say is that it's worth doing, but don't walk into it blind. You might find Mayberry or you might find a version of hell on earth, so you'd better be tough as nails. But if you are, you can carve out your own little pocket of paradise come rain or shine. I was an Army brat, and let me assure you half these 'hawks' around here would wash out of boot camp the first day. That's why they're such gun humpers playing soldier in the woods on weekends.
 
Other than such matters, I like it fine.

<<<thinks the Celtic primitive has potential, for the Top DUmmies.

No Vested Interest (756 posts)    Mon Aug 5, 2013, 03:09 AM

7. If I planned to move for retirement, which I don't plan to do,

I'd be looking for a smallish college town, preferably one with a teaching hospital. I'd also be looking for a church that would fill my needs. I do realize that there may be cultural differences, but, for that matter, my views more often than not, do not synch with my neighbors as it is, so I'm used to that. (That's why I relish time on DU, which gives me time to be my unvarnished self, and to formulate my thoughts re all things political and social.)
 
I've spent a good amount of time visiting Durham, NC, over the last 17 years and would find it a pleasant place to retire. Duke University and Medical Center, and many cultural and academic events open to the public, some at little or no cost. Also a good Franciscan-run church which recognizes the problems in the greater area, including immigration, poverty in all its forms, and, I'm sure, some remnants of racism. Also a mix of people from all over, owing to the university.
 
Didn't mean to highjack the subject, and won't any further, but, just wanted to throw that in. I believe one could live relatively frugally there, as the housing stock that I'm familiar with is not new. Most were built when tobacco was inits prime.

IrishAyes (1,842 posts)    Mon Aug 5, 2013, 11:13 AM

8. It's a lovely wish and plan you have there.

However, I did not have the time or even quite enough $ to do that. My Arizona ranch was off grid and banks wouldn't lend on it as a result, plus an ungodly distance from the nearest fire station, so even before the housing bubble burst I had to wait for a decent cash buyer. When one finally appeared, I had to let him close escrow within 30 days, so I had to move fast and I didn't intend to move twice. Fortunately this house came up for auction in a suitable area, and so this is where I landed. Tiny and shrinking as the town is, it's the county seat although it's so small it doesn't even appear on many maps! There's an excellent and expanding county hospital and a grocery store though you couldn't call it a supermarket in your wildest dreams. A few other bodegas - not very many. But most other things I need can be grown at home or ordered on the internet. Well, the county library's here but you could fit most of it inside my house - once again less of a problem in the electronic age.
 
And you're not hijacking anything. I appreciate your input and wish you the very best. Like I said, I'd have gone back to Calais ME but it just wasn't feasible for me.

No Vested Interest (756 posts)    Mon Aug 5, 2013, 01:09 PM

10. From what you have told us re your home

you've made it quite comfortable and attractive, and, besides, it fulfills your needs. And your neighbors should be grateful that you've rescued and improved the property so that it didn't further deteriorate as happens so often in older towns where the kids so often leave to better their lot.
 
It also sounds as though you have many opportunities to enlighten your fellow townsfolk, through letters to the editors and enriching their conversations with ideas that would have never come their way otherwise. You could consider it a work of mercy or charity when they annoy you enough to "get your goat." Or just look at their goings-on humorously, as folks who just don't know better.
 
Thank goodness for the internet. What did isolated people do for knowledge and stimulation the internet came their way? I guess they wrote read and wrote letters, as I did as well at one time.

IrishAyes (1,842 posts)    Mon Aug 5, 2013, 03:36 PM

11. After 8 years and over $40K more plowed into it,

The outside looks pretty good at last. Twenty-one new custom-sized high E windows, etc. And the mechanics have been completely redone. A very small part of the inside has been renovated, basically where I live most and only some of that. But I see exactly what it can be with a lot more time and $, so that keeps me happy. Every detail has been planned out. A good imagination helps. Even though another chunk of plaster fell from the upstairs bathroom ceiling recently and nearly knocked me out. What a way to go that would be!
 
Since a lot of what I want for the place is hard to find, when I had a little play money I'd periodically search the internet until now I actually have most of the unusual materials collected. What remains is affording the labor. So if I can even do one room a year, that will have to suffice. At least it will be progress.
 
Oh, I do write letters to the editor of our local weekly with the multi-state circulation, and he always prints them even though he's a RW himself. And during campaign season I'm often out and about in political gear. But forget reasoning with these people; some of them start to literally scream when they see me, no matter what kind of friendly, silly grin is plastered on my face. There's no reasoning with people in a frenzy. Surprisingly, I have received 3 messages of approval for my letters from parties far and wide, and you know what? They were unsigned. The writers too terrified their identities might become public, because they know as well as I do what happens to anyone who swims against the tide in this 'land of the free and home of the brave'. There was a gigantic rotten oak tree in my front yard that had to come down, and the first tree trimmer I called for a bid made it clear my $ wasn't good enough for him. Called me a g-d commie to my face, and he isn't alone.
 
Yet the good to come out of all this is greater strength on my part and an even fiercer loyalty for those who are at least decent to me, knowing what it can cost them. And the few real friends I've made here? I'd risk my life for them and count it a privilege. Plenty of the Amish and Mennonites would be perfectly glad to have me, but I'd have to change what they consider worldliness, and I don't have one speck of obedience in my DNA. So with the best of intentions, you can guess how that would turn out!
 
Keeping in touch with old real-life friends from the past and making new ones on the internet has been the only thing that has kept me halfway sane, I'll admit. It cuts into my book reading time severely, but it's still a necessary part of survival in my circumstances. I need frequent reassurance that the whole damned world hasn't gone stark raving bonkers.

ConcernedCanuk (12,378 posts)   Mon Aug 5, 2013, 12:10 AM

6. Can't be done, that's why you can't find one.

You'd have to have one heck of a solar array, as well as one huge storage system (batteries) to be able to have enough electricity to heat it.
 
One of my closest friends have 1000 watts in panels which they are able to turn frequently during the day to catch the sun.
 
They also have a $3500 battery for storage and would never dream of using an electric heater for anything, consumption is too high.
 
Even then, they have to use a generator now and then to keep their fridges running in the seasons/weather where there is not enough sun to keep that huge battery charged (battery is about 1/2 the size of a refrigerator and takes 4 strong men to move it).
 
There are however composting/solar toilets where your "stuff" goes out the wall(facing south so it gets the sun) into what looks like a mini greenhouse - literally "bakes" ur shit, and makes excellent compost for gardens, even inside plants - once it's baked, no odor at all.
 
so when you flush, out it goes into the passive solar "greenhouse" - and from what I've read, only requires being emptied every month or so.
 
I had to change computers recently, so no longer have the bookmarks for it - but they are out there.
 
google solar toilets, find a forum just for that, they are out there also.

And

these solar toilets require only a tiny bit of water to flush.

IrishAyes (1,842 posts)     Mon Aug 5, 2013, 11:19 AM

9. Thank you very much

Every bit of information helps. And I don't intend to give up until I find what I need.
 
Actually, late last night I stumbled upon a Gates-contest prize winner for a solar type toilet that also captures methane to use as a power source. I haven't yet tried to find out if it ever went into production and if it did, sticker shock might kill me.
 
Since the humanure subject comes up so often in this sort of quest, I'd like to let everyone know that some alleged authorities - for what it's worth - urge composting our own waste for 2 years instead of one to insure safety before it's used on food plants.
 
The regular solar composting toilets you mentioned would not be create a problem with permits since you need those for so very little around here. But I would still be very discreet and use the Amish to install one because they wouldn't go ratting me out in the first place.* Maybe I grouse a little too often about many of the adults around here, but believe me the 'regular folks' mostly resent and hate the Amish and Mennonites almost worse than many do myself. But I respect and admire those Amish and Mennonites a great deal, and they're as socially accomodating to me as their culture allows.

*in other words, wants to evade governmental standards and regulations the primitive thinks the rest of us should follow.

[SerpentsTongue]

Pathetic excuse for a person of Irish blood.

[vesta111]

Pathetic excuse for a person of Irish blood.

This poster makes me laugh, Calais Me. has the Maine Maratine Academy , but it has been years since my son went there.  I would guess it, the town has expanded quite a bit since then but not a piece of heaven on earth as she says.   It is much like the small towns in the White Mountains that one drives through and wonder where and how anyone works especially in the winter with no or few  tourists.

Now she knows how the Southerners feel about moving to Maine, living in a small town in the South where everyone is in someway related to each other is, with out the accent, just like living in Maine.

Yankees talk about the fishing and potato harvest where in the South the talk is about the hog, chicken and corn harvest.

Library's are small true but they can order  most any book they wish, be there in 3 days,  the old musty smell of 200 year old books, I could spend my life just reading the history of the beginnings of our nation.    Fun to find a pretencions couple all high and mighty had a family member hanged as a chicken or pig  thief.

I think she did well buying her land and home, but do not understand why if she is willing to spend $40,000 to up grade her home why not have modern plumbing in the bathroom ?

What does she have a old red water pump that has to be primed in the kitchen sink ?   Does she heat her home with Kerosene, have a refrigerator that she needs a 40 pound block of ice once a week to keep the milk and butter cold?

I can see her now in the spring outside with her carpets thrown over a clothes line beating them with a broom. 

No wonder her neighbors and the town shy away from her, they have had flush toilets for 80 years.

Sure the Armish

[GOBUCKS]

a solar powered incinerator toilet

I think that's what people used during the millenia before modern civilization.

When a bear shits in the woods the sun takes care of it.

[vesta111]

I think that's what people used during the millenia before modern civilization.

When a bear shits in the woods the sun takes care of it.

Actually the old time outhouses I have run into are cleaner and smell better then some public restrooms I have been in.

Old time barns had some sort of outhouse, for the farmers that had to milk the cows or what not. Grandparents had a barn such as this attached to the house when they bought it.    Grandpa spent much time in the barn --no animals except for a rain Barrels to raise his fishing worms and he did his carpentry work out there.  From time to time he would use the facilities, no smell except for the bag of lye.

Not really sure how they were built but most up here were built of pine, don't know how deep they were dug, but most had a bag of lye to be scooped in occasionally. Never knew of anyone that had to have the outhouse pumped out, every thing just seemed to go back into the earth for some reason.

Canada and their camping grounds have these rest rooms, all one can smell is the pine buildings and they are cleaner then our bathrooms  with no smell of disinfectant. 

Still, I remember not actually sitting on the seat, as a kid I imagined spiders and or snakes coming for my butt.  As a youngster many times I would pee in the woods before entering a dark outhouse.

Today, wasn't that long ago when in an apartment building a snake got lost in the system, 3 floors down some poor woman getting up to pee found the snake in her toilet.        Judge Judy had  the show on that.     

[DumbAss Tanker]

I look forward to seeing her feature on "1,000 Ways to Die."

[JohnnyReb]

I think that's what people used during the millenia before modern civilization.

When a bear shits in the woods the sun takes care of it.

When I was a kid we had just what she's looking for....we called it "The Outhouse".

[vesta111]

When I was a kid we had just what she's looking for....we called it "The Outhouse".

Out house diving.      A interesting term for the people that are into history.

Lots of outhouses everywhere before plumbing came in. It can become fascinating.

Figure an outhouse used for 80 years by someone that ran a B&B in the 1914 's    What in all that time went down the hole besides shit and piss.     Loose buttons, and crockery, perhaps an aborted baby or two, belt buckles and perhaps a gun or two that fell out of the holster.     False teeth and rings that slipped off the finger.

If we had outhouses today I am sure someone in the future would find cell phones and have no idea what they were used for.

One area of my Moms home did have a barn and an outhouse, I would love to dig it up  if I could find it and see what my ancestors  threw down the hole or lost, would be interesting even if I just knew the diet they ate.

[Skul]

*Harrumph*  A quarter acre isn't even large enough for a proper game of croquet. 

[zeitgeist]

Out house diving.      A interesting term for the people that are into history.

Lots of outhouses everywhere before plumbing came in. It can become fascinating.

Figure an outhouse used for 80 years by someone that ran a B&B in the 1914 's    What in all that time went down the hole besides shit and piss.     Loose buttons, and crockery, perhaps an aborted baby or two, belt buckles and perhaps a gun or two that fell out of the holster.     False teeth and rings that slipped off the finger.

If we had outhouses today I am sure someone in the future would find cell phones and have no idea what they were used for.

One area of my Moms home did have a barn and an outhouse, I would love to dig it up  if I could find it and see what my ancestors  threw down the hole or lost, would be interesting even if I just knew the diet they ate.

My grandfather's farm had the barn convenience and indoor plumbing.  I guess we should have advertised it as having two bathrooms when we sold it.  And yes, it is always a good idea to look before you sit even with inside plumbing.    The toilet paper it the outhouse was usually courtesy of either Sears or Montgomery.  Sure it was a long trip through the woodshed and across the barn and harness room but when you have to go and the other one is busy or the power is out it is a blessing.  The neighbor's farm had a three hole in the barn (two large, one smaller) for group outings.  Rich and pretentious or a large family maybe the reason but when I was a kid that farm had become a 'gentleman's farm' with the outhouse only used when the electricity went out.  And it went out frequently back in those days.

I had to laugh about Calais as well.  Not exactly what I would consider a high rent district either.     Guess digging sea worms isn't paying what it use to.

[franksolich]

*Harrumph*  A quarter acre isn't even large enough for a proper game of croquet. 

Well, that's what I thought too.

After one puts the one horse, the one cow, the one pig, and the one chicken on that quarter-acre, one's run out of room. 

[Bad Dog]

I look forward to seeing her feature on "1,000 Ways to Die."

I hate myself when I watch that show but, I can't help it sometimes.  I also wonder what their DUmmie names might be.