customers of Big Jerry's salon reminesce about Manson family, Berkeley

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticwarrior.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66384

Oh my.  And Fat Che's under the hair-dryer too.

Tom Yossarian Joad

DU seems to be filling with the worst of Democrats

I went over there to see what they had on Tim Russert's death and was amazed at how many posts were hate filled.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...esg_id=3445084

And then I saw a thread of a Grandfather who accidentally killed his grandson with an AK47 while hunting and all the posts were about the mechanics of firearms with many deleted posts and virtually no posts on anything other than making excuses for the gun.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...esg_id=3439240

And then, there's a story of Susan Atkins (of the Manson Family) who now has brain cancer, had a leg removed and is about to die so may be released for her last few months alive and the majority of posters are wishing even more pain and suffering on her for her past crimes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x3443879

They seem to be culling the herd over there to become republican lite. The lack of compassion is astonishing to me and the lack of differing views bothers me considering their traffic and reputation.

Yeah, they've gotten rid of the "bleeding hearts" like me. I guess the right to chose people will be the next to go over there.

It's a shame. They started on the right track. I'm just glad that this forum is here now. A place where we can agree or disagree and not be damned for it if it doesn't fit a Mod's sensibilities.

Cheers, Warriors!

SouthernDem2006

Well, I do not blame the gun either and I think the Manson women should rot in jail. The people she murdered haven't been able to visit their families either.

Tom Yossarian Joad

I'm fine with that. We can agree to disagree.

I'm a bleeding heart. I want more gun control to help avoid things like the AK story and the dumbass who shot himself in the back while using a handgun as a back scratcher.

I don't have to feel that retribution is necessary for someone who is dying and of no threat to anyone. Yes, she is/was a terrible person, but I'm not. Shit, she's most likely going to be confined to a bed no matter where she's at.

Compassion is a good thing. So is Karma and it usually gets its way.

dr.strangelove

I have to agree with SD on the Susan Atkins comments. She was sentenced to die in prison (her death sentnce was justly commuted) for her actions. I see no reason to change that sentence now. While I oppose the death penalty, I do not oppose lifetime imprisonment.

Tom Yossarian Joad

That's okay. But, If the court has determined that it would do no harm for her to go die somewhere else, I'm fine with that.

This society has become so punitive that it is eating itself alive. I'll never really know or not know if she dies in or out of prison. I would rather personally offer a dying person relief no matter what they have done in their past.

Damn. That's pretty ****ing Christian for an atheist.

I wish more "Christians" would take the same route.

dr.strangelove

I'm not sure why thats christian. It seems compassionate, but I don't think compassion has anything at all to do with religion.

Anyway, its not about punative, its about justice. When a person commits a crime adn is convicted, we set punishment. While at some later point a person convicted of a crime may become ill or old or otherwise be sypathetic, it does not undo the action, nor the sentence. If the sentence was not just, then we would have a legal argument to pursue, like in the first place when she was sentenced to die, an unjust sentence in every sense.

But the lifetime sentence is just IMO. Once set, unless the reason behind it no longer exist (like you have proof of her innoncence) then its important to have a fair system. Why should she get special treatment because she is dyign young. What if a prison companion of hers who committed a similar act and got the same sentence, is healthy as hell and will live another 20 years. Why should we treat them differently because one is sick. Justice must be blind.

Nanette

Tom, that is just not a Christian attitude, it is a humane one. I think the world would be a better place if more people had compassion.

Justice is rarely blind. There is proof of that every day. Rich and famous people get off easily. Let a common person do the same thing and they are thrown in jail. No justice is not blind. It sways to the tune of money and fame just like everything else in this world. Our judicial system is corrupted and everyone can see it for what it is.

Xena

I had a close encounter ( a couple actually) with the Manson family. I have no sympathy for any of them. Not to mention, she will get better health care in prison than she will outside of prison.

FuzzySlippers

Let me guess. Charlie was your date for the senior prom?

Xena

Not quite.

A friend and I went to look at horses at the Spawn Ranch. Met Shorty O'Shea and the old man. She took a horse out for a ride in the canyon and ran into the gang of hippies camped there. (Charlie and his family.) The atmosphere at that ranch was so thick you could cut it with a knife. Scary. Bad vibes. You name it, it was nasty and we were really happy to leave. She didn't buy the horse.

Two weeks later we read about the murders.

I used to housesit for a well-known actress in Benedict Canyon... about 1/2 mile from Sharon Tate's house. At the same time the Tate murders took place.

Several of us used to ride (horses) the fire trails in the Malibu Mountains. We would come back down at Kit Tewksberry's place and water the horses before we headed back to the lake. She sold the place to The Iron Butterfly. Charlie hung out with them on occasion. Again heavy, heavy atmosphere at that place. We stopped going there.

All of these close encounters happened before he and his family had been caught and before we knew who he was... or that he even existed. After he was caught and convicted, we all looked back on these close encounters and counted our lucky stars that they weren't any closer.

see_span

Back to the DU. I've hung around there off and on for some time. I never saw evidence of overbearing moderators there. Funny, though ... on the right-wing board I've frequented, they complain about the mods at DU all the time and how they don't allow dissent. Which is funny, because compared to the totalitarian/insane mods at their board, the DU is quite peaceful.

Ben Burch

AMEN.

Evil is Evil.

None of the Mansons should ever breathe free air again.

Anybody who thinks they have been wronged in some way have not read "Helter Skelter."

Advocatus Diaboli

I've read "Helter Skelter" several times, and while I don't think anyone was wronged by the prosecution, the people who committed those heinous crimes were young, dumb and full of hallucinogenics. I'm not saying that the excuse their actions, and I don't profess to know the current mindset of any of the "Ranch" members, but I suspect that nearly 30 years is a long time to think about your crimes and I would hope that mercy is not off the table for her jailers.

frisco

Had a large quantity of emails about DU. Investigated the site quite thoroughly a while back and found it to be everything but democratic.

Tom Yossarian Joad

Yeah, I've seen them complaining as well. I'm probably a bit more left than many here and there in that I do advocate gun control and feel that our punitive system of justice is putting far too many American citizens behind bars. I'm against the death penalty and might well be considered as a pacifist.

When I was over there, I became involved in many posts about the dangers of the overuse of tasers and that they had caused many deaths. A lot of those posts were deleted and I finally got a tombstone once for a pattern of putting new news stories about taser deaths in LBN.

there is a large Dam contingent that believes that the only reason we have been defeated lately is a perceived notion that "Democrats want to take our guns away" and I feel that DU administration is of the same mindset. I may be wrong, but this is just my opinion.

see_span

If the DU mods are imposing their will on posters like the right-wing board I mentioned, they should be criticized, but like I said, I haven't seen that, though I also haven't posted there all that much.

Personally, I think Dems have let the Repubs play their dishonest games and get away with then. There's no ******* way that Kerry or the Dems should have let them slide with the swift boat shit. It looks like Obama's not gonna make the same mistake, though he's seeing early what I feared -- that they'll use racism, subtle or not, to attack him. They know damn well Obama's all over them in issues, but, of course, that won't be their focal point. I hope we screw them good in November.

Ben Burch

They are not dead.

They are alive.

It is Gary Allen Hinman, Steven Parent, Jay Sebring, Wojciech Frykowski, Abigail Folger, Sharon Tate, Sharon Tate's unborn child, Leno and Rosemary LaBianca who the bell tolls for. None of them got mercy. None of them got a chance to die at peace with their families.

troubleinwinter

I, like Xena had a "close encounter" with Manson... real close & personal.

I grew up in Berkeley, a teen in the 'hippie' 60s. I was at a party when Manson was living in 'The Haight', and he attended this Berkeley party. He was intense about engaging me in "conversation" (he seemed much too interested in me). He spewed so much crap, lies, manipulation and stupid 'magical' 'spiritual' bullshit, (I'd seen enough shit wanna-be "guru" con-men around Berk & SF during those days) I just blew him & his garbage off.

I told the hostess of the party that this dude is ****ED and you should get rid of him. He was too old to be at this party with 17-20 yr olds. I was 17, and we were ALL young, and full of hallucinogens (that day and most days). Of course, I didn't know until sometime later that "Charlie", the crap-artist, wanna-be guru at the party was to become a murderer.

I don't have an opinion on letting her out of prison at this point. But I DO NOT excuse her actions in any way at all because she was "young, dumb and full of hallucinogenics". I was "young, dumb and full of hallucinogenics" too, but could not ever have swallowed any of his shit, let alone MURDERS. Theft, lying, cheating, and MURDERS. I used the judgement of a normal human being, and she became a murderer.

Again, I don't have an opinion on her release, but it does occur to me that she was sentenced to "life in prison", not "death in prison". I guess her "life" is already shot and spent. But I cannot entertain any 'mitigation' of these inhuman crimes.

As far as I'm concerned, the sooner these murderers cease to share this planet with us, the better.

Crazy Guggenheim

I lived in Berkeley for 20 years and cannot believe how GOD DAMN CLUELESS some of those Berkeley people are!! Oh my God!! They swallow anything that's "sounds beautiful"!! Do you remember how the street people would use the idiots and throw them away?!?! These Berkeley nitwits didn't know they were getting used. They actually believed the street people were spiritual people who are beautiful on the inside!! Incredibly sheltered morons who get taken in so damn easy.

troubleinwinter

The "clueless nitwits" were not FROM Berkeley, they came TO Berkeley looking for "peace, spirituality, enlightenment" and all that good hippy shit. Sitting ducks & easy pickings & freebies for the con-artists and manipulators.

Berkeley and San Francisco in those days attracted masses of young, clueless people from all over the country, as the con-artists, manipulators and users were attracted by the masses of 'easy marks'. Yes, that whole "peace and love" scene had many victims.

"use the idiots and throw them away"... exactly.

Manson is a psychopath, but he isn't stupid... he is a practiced, deliberate con-man. Watching and listening to his women 'followers' over the years, it's evident to me that there is some normal component missing in their psyches. Perfect storm.

I lived for a time in 1969-70 in Hawaii. I met many serious losers who had been losers on the mainland, and figured they'd "make it" in Paradise. But they were still losers, even in 'Paradise'. And stupid people are still stupid even if they hang in the "love & peace" scene, and dangerous asshole users are still the same if they are in old stomping grounds or the "peace & love" scene.

Having hung out on boards for a long time, I see stupid people (lots and lots and lots of stupid people: "Oh, that sounds beautiful!") and lots of manipulative assholes who fool the stupid people.

SouthernDem2006

Maybe you guys can answer a question for me... What was Benjamin Franklin like?

Crazy Guggenheim

The people who were raised on Berkeley were just as bad. But the rest I agree with you on.

troubleinwinter

Not THIS one!!!!

Oh my.

But it's good to see Fat Che is still around and kicking.

[DixieBelle]

Oh my.

[Chris_]

Are Tom Yossarian Joad and Tom in Tib the same person?

The style is the same and the automatic expectation that there was a link.  And that expectation was FULFILLED.

Hmmmm...