Tavener outs lousy Freeper Troll

[zeitgeist]

Oliver Stone Lousy Freeper Troll    

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10022090079

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:16 AM
 Taverner (51,367 posts)

Oliver Stone to RT: ‘US has become an Orwellian state’
http://rt.com/news/oliver-stone-us-orwellian-022/

Americans are living in an Orwellian state argue Academy Award-winning director Oliver Stone and historian Peter Kuznick, as they sit down with RT to discuss US foreign policy and the Obama administration’s disregard for the rule of law.

­Both argue that Obama is a wolf in sheep’s clothing and that people have forgiven him a lot because of the “nightmare of the Bush presidency that preceded him.”

“He has taken all the Bush changes he basically put them into the establishment, he has codified them,” Stone told RT. “It is an Orwellian state. It might not be oppressive on the surface, but there is no place to hide. Some part of you is going to end up in the database somewhere.”

According to Kuznick, American citizens live in a fish tank where their government intercepts more than 1.7 billion messages a day. “That is email, telephone calls, other forms of communication.”

RT’s Abby Martin in the program Breaking the Set discusses the Showtime film series and book titled The Untold History of the United States co-authored by Oliver Stone and Peter Kuznick.

<snip>

OS: Primitive of course. There has been a blind worship of the military and patriotism. I strongly believe in the strong military, but to defend our country, not to invade other countries and to conquer the world. I think there is a huge difference that has been forgotten: morality. Once you take the laws away, as Einstein once said famously, the country does not obey its laws, the laws would be disrespected. So it seems that the fundamental morality has been lost on us somewhere on the way recently and now it is what is effective. Can we kill Bin Laden without having to bring him to trial, can we just get it done? And that ‘get it down’ mentality justifies the ends and that is where countries go wrong, and people go wrong. All of our lives are moral equations. Does the end justify the means? No, it never did.

Response to Taverner (Original post)
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:46 AM
Blue_In_AK (36,281 posts)
1. I don't care what anybody says.

I like Oliver Stone.  

Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #1)
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:22 AM
flamingdem (21,047 posts)
3. I agreed before I read the sheeps clothing part

Last edited Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:23 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

dang I expect more from him .. ah well

He could save it for the repukes ..

Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #1)
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 03:24 AM
AverageMe (1 post)
7. It is time that progressives on the left talked to crazies on the right

Ever since 9-11 and the start of "the War on Terror" we have seen the slow loss of our freedoms and rights. And we have become more and more willing to accept this loss of freedom and personal liberty. Not all paranoia is crazy, sometimes they (big brother) really are watching you. What is our right to privacy, for it lies at the core of all individual freedom, whether it is in the bedroom, what we smoke, or any other area of our lives. When does government become too big?

Response to Taverner (Original post)
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:12 AM
AtheistCrusader (12,038 posts)
2. Einstein?

Didn't he mean Bastiat?

No society can exist unless the laws are respected to a certain degree. The safest way to make laws respected is to make them respectable. When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law. These two evils are of equal consequence, and it would be difficult for a person to choose between them.

See: FISA, Patriot Act, the war on some drugs, etc.

Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #2)
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:32 AM
JVS (59,902 posts)
4. Does Bastiat explain why he considers the loss of moral sense as bad as loss of respect for the law?

I'm inclined to view a loss of moral sense as much worse than a lack of respect for the law.

Response to JVS (Reply #4)
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:34 AM
AtheistCrusader (12,038 posts)
5. Depends. I tend to agree with you, insofar as allowing torture or indefinite detention without legal

Last edited Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:35 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

counsel is concerned. When people start accepting that shit... I think it's a measure of evil beyond anything Bastiat was familiar with, in his time.


Edit: In fact, civil disobedience is an example of lack of respect for the law, and it can be a down right good outcome.

Response to Taverner (Original post)
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:37 AM
green for victory (167 posts)
6. ^

 &r

Here it is explained 11 years ago.

This is one of the best articles explaining US Foreign policy I have ever come across.

It is more timely than ever.

It explains why, for example, it was a big deal to announce that Cinnabon (...) was the first corporation to establish itself in the "New Libya". As if Libyans couldn't wait for cinnamon rolls.

Backing up Globalization with Military Might

by Karen Talbot Covert Action Quarterly, Issue 68, Fall 1999
http://www.globalissues.org/article/448/backing-up-globalization-with-military-might#McDonaldsNeedsMcDonnellDouglastoFlourish

McDonald's Needs McDonnell Douglas to Flourish

An article by Thomas Friedman in the New York Times entitled "What the World Needs Now" tells it all. Illustrated by an American Flag on a fist it said, among other things: "For globalism to work, America can't be afraid to act like the almighty superpower that it is....The hidden hand of the market will never work without a hidden fist-McDonald's cannot flourish without McDonnell Douglas, the designer of the F-15. And the hidden fist that keeps the world safe for Silicon Valley's technologies is called the United States Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps...(Much Much More...)

It is a long, detailed article that few have bothered to read.

But if you read it you will understand more than 96% of the people in the United States about what is actually happening with these invasions.

PNAC Lives!

"Cinnabon has many international franchise operations, and its largest branch outside the United States and Canada is in Stars Centre in Cairo. The restaurant is noted for being the first U.S franchise to open in Libya after the ouster of Muammar Gaddafi in 2011."

Response to green for victory (Reply #6)
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:12 AM
dreamnightwind (1,130 posts)
9. Great post!

Welcome.

Response to green for victory (Reply #6)
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:12 PM
 Taverner (51,367 posts)
12. +100

 

Response to Taverner (Original post)
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 04:01 AM
 awoke_in_2003 (17,084 posts)
8. The Patriot Act was wrong...

when it was enacted under Bush. It was wrong when it was extended under Obama.

Response to Taverner (Original post)
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:24 AM
Bonobo (18,851 posts)
10. Is Oliver Stone a DU troll too? A closet Republican sowing dissent?

Or could it be...just maybe... that SOME of us haven't changed our understanding of right and wrong just because "our guy" won the election?

Response to Bonobo (Reply #10)
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:47 AM
 sabrina 1 (31,942 posts)
11. That depends. It depends on whether your ethics are situational or not. Iow

if you thought Bush's policies were wrong and spoke out against them while he was president, and you still think they are wrong now that he is gone and don't care what letter comes after the name of the politician implementing draconian, anti-Democratic policies, then NO, Oliver Stone is who he always was, a man who was right about Bush and his policies and still is.

But if you think that policies that were bad under Bush are not so bad when the President has a 'd' after his name, then YES, Oliver Stone, together with a long list of other formerly respected-by-the-left Americans, like Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi, and Jeremy Scahill et al, is a 'troll'. Lol!

It's simple really, blind partisanship is as dangerous as the FFs predicted it would be. It is what allows policies that should be abhorrent to any democracy, to prevail as one side or the other will always turn a blind eye to them if it is their team in charge

[NHSparky]

Dear DUmmies,

I was but a wee lad in high when I became convinced that the Soviet Union couldn't withstand the might of America and her allies.  And what, may you ask, was the seminal event that led me to this conclusion?

Pepsi.  Sold in the Soviet Union.  I was on my first boat when the Berlin Wall fell, and soon after, the world's largest McDonalds is opened just outside Red Square.

Look at how quickly the US went from a near-Depression economy to churning out TENS OF THOUSANDS of tanks, aircraft, and ships in a matter of a few MONTHS.  In a few years, we had won a war on two fronts--something the vaunted Nazis and even the Soviets couldn't have managed.

If this nation has the political will to do so, God help those who would stand in the way...and that includes you, DUmmies.

[delilahmused]

Uh Oh! When they've lost Oliver Stone...

Cindie

[BigTex]

Uh Oh! When they've lost Oliver Stone...

Cindie

they never had him hes a paulbot

[98ZJUSMC]

Didn't he mean Bastiat?

Heh......no shit, Sherlock.  What are you idiots doing quoting free market/small government  advocates?

[txradioguy]

Taverner has such a hard on for the military I'm beginning to believe he lost a gf/wife/so to a man in uniform.

Oh and Tav...GFYS with a wire brush.