If the government wants to save Billions on health care costs they should..

[miskie]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002887049

What does a primitive do, right after The Obamacare tax passes ? suggest 'voluntary' death panels, thats what.

 If the government wants to save Billions on health care costs they should

 inform people and focus on educating doctors about the CHOICE people have to enroll their loved ones in hospice. Lots of families have no clue that they might be able to go home from the hospital with their loved one and not watch them die in the Intensive Care Unit. Yes, it's not the best choice for everyone. It's not even a possibility for some. But, for the many many people who die with lots of tubes and tests and procedures that don't make them more comfortable it could be so helpful.

1. People see it as "giving up" and betraying their parents and grandparents even though a couple of recent studies have shown palliative care increases longevity as well as quality of life over heroics.

Another thing we're fighting with end of life care is extended family who know **** all about what the people concerned actually want. They always swoop in at the last minute in hospitals, screaming about canceling advanced directives.

One of the things I found in my dad's papers was something he and my mother wrote up, typed out and signed back in the early 60s that spelled out very clearly what they wanted. I often wish I'd saved it, copied it, and sent it to the sourpusses in my own extended family since that's exactly what I did for both of them.

It takes a lot more strength to turn down heroics and opt for palliative care. Maybe as health care reform plays out, palliative care for people over 85 or so will become the default instead of the heroics we have now. That would be a positive change.

Stupid warpy - instead of the government making up the so-called death panel, she thinks that an elderly patient's legal guardian/healthcare proxy and family should make that decision instead. If there was ever someone who could be used as the picture next to the dictionary definition of 'useful idiot', it would be you, Warpy.

[Bad Dog]

They want so bad for the govt. to do their killing for them. Come on, you can do it, off Granny for the planet.

[DumbAss Tanker]

You first, oh-so-helpful DUmmies.

[Celtic Rose]

There is a point when the hospital does provide hospice care rather than try to restore a person to full health.  Many, if not all, large hospitals have hospice nurses on staff specifically for that.  End stage cancer, end stage COPD, end stage congestive heart failure, etc. are all things where hospice care may be encouraged.  The key is finding the point where further efforts to restore the person to health are unlikely to be productive, so the best the hospital can hope for is keeping the patient as pain free and comfortable as possible.  

Yes, hospice care can be done at home, but it still requires a hospice nurse to visit regularly.  Depending on the family situation it may be possible, but it is hardly feasible for every situation.  Is the surviving spouse strong enough to change an adult's diaper, or to support the dying spouse on the way to the bathroom?  Can the surviving family care for an IV properly, or administer injected medication?

Not every patient over 85 is automatically a candidate for palliative care rather than normal care. If a patient is in good health, they should receive the same health care as anybody else.  We have people living very healthy lives past 100 now, why should we tell people that they are expected to die at 85?  

[Bad Dog]

There is a point when the hospital does provide hospice care rather than try to restore a person to full health.  Many, if not all, large hospitals have hospice nurses on staff specifically for that.  End stage cancer, end stage COPD, end stage congestive heart failure, etc. are all things where hospice care may be encouraged.  The key is finding the point where further efforts to restore the person to health are unlikely to be productive, so the best the hospital can hope for is keeping the patient as pain free and comfortable as possible.  

Yes, hospice care can be done at home, but it still requires a hospice nurse to visit regularly.  Depending on the family situation it may be possible, but it is hardly feasible for every situation.  Is the surviving spouse strong enough to change an adult's diaper, or to support the dying spouse on the way to the bathroom?  Can the surviving family care for an IV properly, or administer injected medication?

Not every patient over 85 is automatically a candidate for palliative care rather than normal care. If a patient is in good health, they should receive the same health care as anybody else.  We have people living very healthy lives past 100 now, why should we tell people that they are expected to die at 85?  

Because it would "save billions of dollars".  See:  Death panels

[miskie]

Because it would "save billions of dollars".  See:  Death panels

Exactly - this is the De Facto (DUmmies sure do love this phrase, don't they ?) definition behind them - where another person or group of people determine that monetary cost overrides the value of somebody's life, that person or people are acting as a 'death panel'. They may cover it up in flowers and lollipops by stating that the patient's quality of life may be better if allowed to pass on comfortably instead of strapped to medical equipment in a hospital bed, but I think that should be that patient's decision, not anyone else's. - ESPECIALLY if that decision is based primarily on costs involved.

[Kyle Ricky]

Wow, all I have to say is that the Stupid of this one is beyond reproach.

[Mr Mannn]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002887049

What does a primitive do, right after The Obamacare tax passes ? suggest 'voluntary' death panels, thats what.

Stupid warpy - instead of the government making up the so-called death panel, she thinks that an elderly patient's legal guardian/healthcare proxy and family should make that decision instead. If there was ever someone who could be used as the picture next to the dictionary definition of 'useful idiot', it would be you, Warpy.

Socialists are all about killing people.

[Freeper]

Since when, other than the military, do libs give a shit about saving the government money?

[Bad Dog]

Since when, other than the military, do libs give a shit about saving the government money?

The only times I can recall involve dead babies & old folks.

[miskie]

Socialists are all about killing people.

Ironic factoid : People have been trying to remake Logan's Run since the late '80s - and it seems they finally have all the pieces in place to do it now. Those who remember the book (and the first film, though it widely alters the story) know that the story is the ultimate liberal dystopian future - all resources are government controlled, right down to maximum permitted lifetime per human.

The cries of angst from the left of a remake will be delightful, as they claim its all about besmirching the Great And Powerful O and his magnificent healthcare program.  

[BlueStateSaint]

Ironic factoid : People have been trying to remake Logan's Run since the late '80s - and it seems they finally have all the pieces in place to do it now. Those who remember the book (and the first film, though it widely alters the story) know that the story is the ultimate liberal dystopian future - all resources are government controlled, right down to maximum permitted lifetime per human.

The cries of angst from the left of a remake will be delightful, as they claim its all about besmirching the Great And Powerful O and his magnificent healthcare program.  

IIRC, once you reached 30, you went off to "Carousel."

[diesel driver]

Here's a great way for the government to save a metric shit ton of money on health care costs.

GET THE HELL OUT OF HEALTHCARE!!!!

[miskie]

IIRC, once you reached 30, you went off to "Carousel."

That was how it was in the movie - in the book, once you hit 21, you went off to a 'sleep shop' to be put down like a sick or otherwise incapacitated animal. But the whole book is like that, its really quite brutal to the liberal dream.

[Bad Dog]

Here's a great way for the government to save a metric shit ton of money on health care costs.

GET THE HELL OUT OF HEALTHCARE!!!!

DD you really gotta work on your nuance.

[diesel driver]

DD you really gotta work on your nuance.

Hey, it's me, I can't help it.

But I DO have "culture".

AGRI-culture, that is.