Smarter than you: the 5th Amendment edition

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

grantcart (34,165 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

If Zimmerman invokes his constitutional right to not speak with prosecutors, he should be arrested.

The entire rationale for not arresting Zimmerman is his invoking the "Stand Your Ground" law which bars police from arresting someone with a fear that they were in danger.

If Zimmerman lawyer's up and refuses to cooperate with prosecutors now (as reported in the media) investigating the facts of the case then he should not be allowed to use the "Stand Your Ground" law to avoid arrest because those investigating the case are no longer able to question Zimmerman on his state of mind at the time of the shooting and have no basis in fact to apply the "Stand Your Ground" law.

Of course Zimmerman could still invoke the law as his defense but he would have to do it from the witness stand.

If Zimmerman is not going to provide prosecutors with a first hand account of the incident and evidence of his state of mind at the time of the shooting then the prosecutors have no basis in fact to apply it for him and have absolutely no alternative but to arrest him and prosecute vigorously unless and until he cooperates fully with the investigation.

If you aren't going to discuss your frame of mind with prosecutors you shouldn't be able to use it as a defense, it simply doesn't exist.

former9thward (3,480 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

1. You may wish that was the law but it is not.

First ,Zimmerman was questioned for hours on the night of the incident by the police. Whatever he said is there for prosecutors to examine. Second. no matter what a potential defendant says or doesn't say a prosecutor must feel the defendant is guilty of a charge before bringing it. A prosecutor is violating his ethics if he brings a charge just to see what happens in court. Third, Zimmerman's defense attorney has told him to not talk, I'm sure. I know I would. Prosecutors have no right to endlessly question a suspect until they get want they want.

Oh ****-you and your facts!

NYC_SKP (39,984 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

2. Having been arrested and questioned does not prevent prosecutors from filing charges.

Especially if they are federal prosecutors.

While grantcart's theory may or may not be flawed, Zimmerman is no less exposed to further investigation and prosecution.

Just saying.

You're a moron who didn't read the post he replied to.

Just saying.

former9thward (3,480 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

3. Of course Zimmerman can be investigated by anyone and prosecuted.

But his refusal to talk at this stage can't be used a reason to bring charges. That would be illegal in and of itself. 

CBGLuthier (7,358 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

5. He should be arrested. But not for refusing to talk to cops.

As has been stated many times on DU, only an idiot talks to the cops without a lawyer present. Even then you have nothing to gain.

He was detained and questioned, ass crack-head.

grantcart (34,165 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

6. He is not going to be arrested for refusing to talk with the cops, he should be arrested

because without his complete statement there is no evidence for the "Stand Your Ground" law.

You are impervious to facts and constitutional law, aren't you?

When the facts are on your side, hammer the facts.

When the law is on your side, hammer the law.

When neither is on your side, hammer the table.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002520263

[Bondai]

They are not going to accept anything less than Zimmerman's head on a stake, facts be damned. Where has it ever been reported that he was not cooperating with investigators? unless NBC is making shit up again, which is entirely possible. The reason it is taking so long is they want to be very careful to get all the facts or they are going to wind up with a wrongful prosecution case. Personally I think they are having trouble finding enough hard evidence to press on...Holy shit! you mean Zimmerman told the truth?

[BannedFromDU]

They are not going to accept anything less than Zimmerman's head on a stake, facts be damned. Where has it ever been reported that he was not cooperating with investigators? unless NBC is making shit up again, which is entirely possible. The reason it is taking so long is they want to be very careful to get all the facts or they are going to wind up with a wrongful prosecution case. Personally I think they are having trouble finding enough hard evidence to press on...Holy shit! you mean Zimmerman told the truth?

Which brings up one of those zen questions:

What does a riot on the internet look like?

Because we know the apes in Florida are already taking their rage out on whitey...just read the news.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

grantcart (34,166 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

7. Wrong on four counts


1) Zimmerman was questioned briefly not for hours.

2) The Stand Your Ground law requires an affirmative defense, Zimmerman must assert that he was frightened and must give evidence to support it.

3) Regardless of how complete the police questioning was it was done without checking other witnesses and other forensic evidence that certainly conflict with his original statement. If Zimmerman is going to assert that he was justified in the shooting to avoid arrest then the burden is on him to clear up all of the relevent questions.

4) "A prosecutor is violating his ethics if he brings a charge just to see what happens in court". This is quite funny. Here are the facts. Zimmerman shot and killed somebody. He should be arrested immediately unless there is convincing evidence that the shooting is justified. If he refuses to cooperate in establishing that evidence then he absolutely should be arrested unless and until that evidence is provided. If the defense refuses to cooperate with the prosecution in establishing that defense then he should be arrested and given the opportunity to establish the defense in court.

former9thward (3,481 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

9. Wrong on four counts.

Zimmerman was questioned for five hours that night. Do you consider that briefly? Unless you think CBS is conspiring to make it up. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57405476/what-happened-right-after-trayvon-martins-shooting/

On the other three you are hopelessly mixing up your bizarre interpretations of legal procedures with your assertions. Good luck with those.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Former9thward knows a whole Hell of a lot more about law than grantcart does.  Just sayin.'

[Rebel]

NYC_SKP (39,984 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

2. Having been arrested and questioned does not prevent prosecutors from filing charges.

Especially if they are federal prosecutors.

Federal prosecutors? What federal law did he break?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Federal prosecutors? What federal law did he break?

DoJ is investigating under the auspices of civil rights.

Which just goes to show that good law is abused to abrogate the rules against double jeopardy.

[NHSparky]

DoJ is investigating under the auspices of civil rights.

Which just goes to show that good law is abused to abrogate the rules against double jeopardy.

Basically how they got the cops who beat Rodney King.

[Rebel]

DoJ is investigating under the auspices of civil rights.

Which just goes to show that good law is abused to abrogate the rules against double jeopardy.

A Hispanic violating the rights of a black guy. Oh, this gon be good.

[JohnnyReb]

A prosecutor is violating his ethics if he brings a charge just to see what happens in court....and we all know how ethical some prosecutors are.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

A Hispanic violating the rights of a black guy. Oh, this gon be good.

WHITE Hispanic, sir.

[Rebel]

WHITE Hispanic, sir.

Damn, I keep forgetting that extremely new and fabricated, but expedient, category.

[JohnnyReb]

Damn, I keep forgetting that extremely new and fabricated, but expedient, category.

I've spent my entire life outside in the sun ...and show it. So what category am I in?

Oh yeah, That's right, "real old easy victim white man".

[Skul]

Trying to figure out what this idiot is saying.
Let me give it a shot.

3) Regardless of how complete the police questioning was it was done without checking other witnesses Witness staements and evidence was being collected during the questioning, DUmbass and other forensic evidence that certainly conflict What evidence? You weren't there, you have no idea. with his original statement. If Zimmerman is going to assert that he was justified in the shooting to avoid arrest then the burden is on him to clear up all of the relevent questions. Um, that's what the hours of questioning did.

4) "A prosecutor is violating his ethics if he brings a charge just to see what happens in court". This is quite funny. Here are the facts. Zimmerman shot and killed somebody. He should be arrested immediately You mean he faked those handcuffs when led into the police station for questioning? unless there is convincing evidence that the shooting is justified. Think about what you just said, DUmpmonkey, then consider what happened AFTER the questioning was over. If he refuses to cooperate in establishing that evidence then he absolutely should be arrested unless and until that evidence is provided. If the defense refuses to cooperate with the prosecution in establishing that defense then he should be arrested and given the opportunity to establish the defense in court. Perry Mason would slap the crap out of you for being so stupid.

[Zeus]

I've spent my entire life outside in the sun ...and show it. So what category am I in?

Oh yeah, That's right, "real old easy victim wrinkled white man".

 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Trying to figure out what this idiot is saying.
Let me give it a shot.

Don't even bother.

These loons are so whacked-out on Hater-ade the new narrative is Zimmerman chased Martin then tackled/apprehended Martin and shot him execution style.

[Karin]

I've spent my entire life outside in the sun ...and show it. So what category am I in?

Oh yeah, That's right, "real old easy victim white man".

Doesn't that make you a redneck?  That's where the expression came from, right? 


I'm getting mighty tired and pissed off at these from the DUmmies and MSM in general:

*I said it and that makes it true.
*I wish it were so, and so it is true.
*I don't like the real truth, so I'll just make shit up. 

[Skul]

Don't even bother.

These loons are so whacked-out on Hater-ade the new narrative is Zimmerman chased Martin then tackled/apprehended Martin and shot him execution style.

That's true, Bun.
Seems there are more and more speculation threads popping up all over the DUmp.
Trying to keep up has given me a headache.

[Zeus]

That's true, Bun.
Seems there are more and more speculation threads popping up all over the DUmp.
Trying to keep up has given me a headache.

Scientist have postulated about an alternate life on another planet for eons. Hell there is one right here on planet earth. it's called Dummieland.

[JohnnyReb]

Doesn't that make you a redneck?  That's where the expression came from, right? 


I'm getting mighty tired and pissed off at these from the DUmmies and MSM in general:

*I said it and that makes it true.
*I wish it were so, and so it is true.
*I don't like the real truth, so I'll just make shit up. 

Yes but it offends me to be called that by someone who isn't also a redneck...uh, isn't that how it's supposed to work? At least that was how I thought Oprah explained it?

[Delmar]

Don't even bother.

These loons are so whacked-out on Hater-ade the new narrative is Zimmerman chased Martin then tackled/apprehended Martin and shot him execution style.

Just for fun I googled the phrase "hunted him down like a dog."
The first result and many of the subsequent results are Trayvon related.

[Airwolf]

Scientist have postulated about an alternate life on another planet for eons. Hell there is one right here on planet earth. it's called Dummieland.

Yes but only Nadine has that cool beard like Spock did in the Mirror Universe