Feminism is going to ruin them. That's not hyperbole. It is the one easiest -ism to demonstrate their lack of moral or even ethical consistency.
Moreover, it leads them off on wild tangents such as the so-called "war on women."
You can get the public to sit-up and take notice when you screech, "They're trying to take away your birth control pills!" but when the audience then goes and asks their republican uncle if that is what he's attempting to accomplish and he goes, "What?" the audience resents you for being a liar.
Screeching, "They're trying to repeal women's suffrage!" as a defense won't improve your case.
You can't convince America the GOP hates women when they love Sarah Palin and the left denigrates Palin in sexist terms.
Even more importantly, they cannot rally around the feminist flag pole (sorry for the phallic imagery, gals) because they can't agree what the flag looks like.
lumberjack_jeff (20,598 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
126. "...is the struggle for equal rights between men and women. Not for men. Men already have more..."
Then it's not about equality, but about advocacy.
What does feminism propose to do about the truth that women are only 8% of workplace fatalities? That women are only 10% of those incarcerated? That girls are only 40% of high school dropouts? That women are 0% of the people required to register for the draft?
Equality is a math expression, but it really isn't that hard. No one should take seriously discussion of "equality", when what is really meant is "more for me".
BTW, I think we should agree on some definitions to words like "equality", "rights" and "oppression".
Specifically, which rights do women lack?
lumberjack_jeff (20,598 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
149. I can't ignore what you don't say.
Last edited Thu Mar 15, 2012, 12:41 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
I've asked you a couple of times what rights you feel you are missing. Your only response is the "right to your body" - paraphrased; to choose whether you're going to be a parent or not.
I think this is a poor example, because for men, our influence over parenthood choice ends at ejaculation, everything beyond that is someone else's call.
i believe in a post right above i stated that i cannot see any feminist.... or AA advocate.... or gay advocate NOT standing up for human rights and against the wrongs. because we are so familiar with inequality and privilege, we recognize it easily. because we are so comfortable with speaking out, we are one of the first voice to do it without hesitation.
This is demonstrably untrue. I'm going to use you for an example because a) you're unusually fair-minded, b) because the subject is recent, c) because you fit the profile you described above. Yesterday, you said that you didn't realize that for the last 34 years, 18 year old men had to register for the draft and girls did not. As a parent of sons, who is "familiar with inequality and privilege" and can "recognize it easily", how could you not know this?
People don't recognize privilege easy because the only privilege one can recognize is that which they can project onto others.
...Like the 3 out of 5 college students who are women and the 80% of teachers who got there with the grants and scholarships from the federal educational equity program for women, and who intend to launch businesses to take advantage of the preferential treatment given to women owned businesses, they wouldn't recognize true privilege if they were soaking in it.
lumberjack_jeff (20,598 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
166. It wasn't my intent to criticize and yes. You ARE the one who speaks up.
Which is kind of my point. The (imo) best exemplar of fair feminism here didn't know about draft registration.
Clearly "the innate desire for fairness that comes naturally to those in an oppressed group" has its limitations. The OP shows that many if not most kinds of feminism are predicated on the idea that men are the problem. This view renders that kind of feminist completely blind to any experience on the other side of the equal sign. That kind of awareness is at best a distraction and at worst detracts from the goal.
I'm not suggesting that feminism should focus on all others. In fact, I'm saying that it can't. Feminism isn't about equality, it's about advocacy for women, and every other cause is only important to the degree that it is a useful recruiting/fundraising tool (e.g. "intersectionality").
Maybe it's the testosterone-dripping maleness of me but he had a very cordial conversation with seabeyond.
Then scout starts in on him:
Scout (7,480 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
135. why should feminism have to worry about it?
what are the men doing to improve their lot? would you be happy if more women died in the workplace, is that what you want?
"What does feminism propose to do about the truth that women are only 8% of workplace fatalities? That women are only 10% of those incarcerated? That girls are only 40% of high school dropouts? That women are 0% of the people required to register for the draft? "
why don't more men get off their asses and work to better the lot of all men, hmmmm?
oh, and don't ****ing assume that feminists aren't working to improve the things you noted.
lumberjack_jeff (20,598 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
141. Fine. You chose "eat the cake"
Therefore you can't have it too.
Feminism isn't about equality. Feminists might be multitasking to solve many other problems, but they're not doing it under the banner of feminism because equality isn't the goal.
Men "don't get off their asses" and advocate for themselves for several reasons, one of which is the fact that they've spent the last 40 years buying into the idea that feminism had the equality thing covered. They didn't understand - as you do - that feminism doesn't give a shit about them.
Scout (7,480 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
168. oh poor pitiful lambs, it's the evil feminist's fault...
"Men "don't get off their asses" and advocate for themselves for several reasons, one of which is the fact that they've spent the last 40 years buying into the idea that feminism had the equality thing covered."
my god, do you actually read what you post? LOL i suppose now you'll claim that all the men have been emasculated and made powerless by the evil feminazi brigade.
feminism is about equality for women. if men don't like it, tough shit. work for yourselves. and stop whining about the women don't waaaaaaaaaaant us to be equal, they aren't working for uuuuuuuussssssssss. maybe if you'd quit whining and blaming you will see how equality for women is a plus for men too.
grow some ovaries why don't "you guys," and start standing up for yourselves.
He's going to kill them with thiings like this:
lumberjack_jeff (20,598 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
120. The system which created a congress 83% male...
... also created a school system 82% female and a workforce in which 92% of fatalities are men.
There is undeniably a lot of disparity, but if you think only your end of the stick is unsanitary, you're not seeing the whole picture.
You can't create equality for women without creating equality for men. It's the definition of equality.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002425467#post126
