elmers discuss leftunderground, the Magic One, Ron Paul, 3rd party, franksolich

[franksolich]

Oh my.

No link, because via my clarebootheluce g-mail.

12-18-2011, 02:19 PM
ima_sinnic
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conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

franksolich is posting at LU.

there are also several zero-worshippers and at least one Ron Paul fanboy.

I've been browsing and posting over there for a few days and finding the place might be a little too staid for my tastes. I guess I just don't have any patience left for anyone who's still buying into the "Supreme Court" as an excuse for voting for zero -- or any excuse for that matter -- and some aren't even giving excuses, just that "he's the best."

I suppose it could be a nice exercise in communicating with fence-sitters and people who need their consciousness raised, but really, where have they been all this time that they still don't get it after 3 years of unrelenting screwing?

12-18-2011, 03:23 PM
Naja
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RE: conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100232317#post75

    Quote:jefferson_dem (32,348 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail
   
    209. "I will hold my nose and vote for you next year."

    All that matters at this point. Thanks for doing the right thing.

    Oh, the rest of your OP is pure hogwash.

12-18-2011, 03:31 PM
ima_sinnic
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RE: conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

That's the kind of crap I'm talking about -- not jefferson_dem's response, which is moronic but highly predictable and expected from the shills -- but the idea of "holding my nose" but still voting for that POS anyway. Is that supposed to hurt Zero's feelings or something? They really don't care how you deal with the bad smell in the voting booth, as long as you do the right thing and vote for 4 more years of shafting! Talk about "wasting your vote" -- sheesh.

12-18-2011, 03:45 PM
Andrea
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RE: conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

I have a friend in real life who supports Ron Paul. He keeps telling me that he's no longer a Republican, but "leaning more Libertarian" as if I would like that. I think Ron Paul is a despicable person. Libertarianism is idiotic. Put them in a box and shake them up, you can't tell the difference. The Libertarians will vote Republican in the end.

Is Frankosolich being honest about himself, or is he trying to fit in? Why would he even bother? I don't understand that mindset of wanting to toy with the opposition. I can't stand to talk to any of those right-wingers. Last night I read an article about a local couple who is suing BOA because they are foreclosing in spite of the fact they never missed a payment and never paid late. There were a couple people in the comments defending BOA by saying the couple was probably lying about making the payments. One guy was particularly virulent, insisting that the couple had "bought more house than they deserved." What is wrong with these people? I have seen this type in real life, and they can be very kind and compassionate, as long as the other person meets their qualifications. It's really sick. They are extremely dysfunctional.

12-18-2011, 04:26 PM
bahrbearian
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RE: conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

I would never vote for Ron Paul, but I would support him in the primaries, if Obama goes down ( I won't vote for him either) I would want to see someone that supports most of the Constitution, and would end our Imperialism take over.

12-18-2011, 04:38 PM
Bellator
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RE: conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

I've been watching the site too. It does look promising to me. They have tough days ahead of them to make it work. I suspect several problems for them. I see more than a couple of people who will cause problems given time. Both from the right and the left. Disruption is the policy for some. The Obama supporters will be the least of their worry. I hope they can make it work!!

It seems their are many people who do not want such a site to exist.

12-18-2011, 04:44 PM
Bellator Offline
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RE: conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

I am seeing this all over the place here in Iowa. I am trying to understand it. I do not think these people have a handle on who Ron Paul is. They hear soundbites....bits and pieces. They are only getting a small part of the picture.

Their is so much dissatisfaction here with both Parties. I know there is an opportunity for a third Party. I do not think Libertarian is the one.

12-18-2011, 04:52 PM
Saracat
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RE: conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

Well, I will likely vote for Obama, despite my being less than thrilled but there is no viable alternative. I refuse to vote for any of the GOP and the Third party effort has no legs. But if it does prove to have any support, I would vote it.Ron Paul is horrible. And most people forget how much he hates women in particular. For an allged libertarian who despises government interference he certainly approves of the government making women's healthcare decisions and even having the right to deprive them of the right to live.Hypocrite is the best of the names that can be used to describe Paul.

I also think, as Obama ha proved, in the long run, it may not matter much who is Prez, so long as we get a decent Congress. I am also concerned about local government and that is where my efforts will be concentrated, such as they are. Politics is going to take a back seat this year. I have to find a job, any kind of a job.The rest has to take care of itself.I think I have wasted entirely too much of my life and treasure on politics.

12-18-2011, 04:53 PM
ima_sinnic
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RE: conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

Andrea, franksolich is quite open about who he is, replying to a post tentatively linking conservative cave to Skinner -- here's a link to that thread, which actually has some interesting stuff in it -- he comes in on page 3:
http://www.leftunderground.com/threads/9...red-scare.

12-18-2011, 04:57 PM
ima_sinnic Online
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RE: conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

Saracat, yours is the kind of excuse that makes me despair for this country.

Sorry to be blunt, but that's just the way I feel.

12-18-2011, 05:26 PM
Andrea Offline
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RE: conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

    (12-18-2011 04:53 PM)ima_sinnic Wrote:  Andrea, franksolich is quite open about who he is, replying to a post tentatively linking conservative cave to Skinner -- here's a link to that thread, which actually has some interesting stuff in it -- he comes in on page 3:
    http://www.leftunderground.com/threads/9...red-scare.

Thanks. I will check that out.

12-18-2011, 05:30 PM
Andrea
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RE: conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

Third parties will not have legs if people dismiss them without giving them a chance, as you just did. Your vote will be meaningless if you vote for Obama. If you vote third party, you make a statement.

12-18-2011, 05:46 PM
Arg U Mentor Online
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RE: conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

Andrea, I thoroughly agree with your comment, but I have to say, trying to get on board a third party candidate is difficult. I haven't looked since this most recent return to the internet, (two days ago I don't have internet when I'm in Seattle), and perhaps there's a huge improvement from last weekend, but...

I've tried to find Rocky Anderson's site. Can't find one, can for Justice Party, but not for the candidate. Justice Party isn't even on most state's radar, so I was going to see what I could do to help them, all I saw was a request for money, not volunteers. Again it's been a couple of weeks since I've put out any effort trying to help, but you hear about it on the news or DU or here, and dash over to their site to get involved, and they don't seem prepared for people to be involved except to pay contributions.

Third parties need to get started the day after the last election in order to actually be viable by the next election, and I mean the last presidential election. This starting a year and a half before, I don't see how they'll get their candidate or party through all the states' regs to be put on the ballot otherwise.

Well now that it's mentioned, I'll go see if Rocky or Justice Party has some way besides bucks to help out.

12-18-2011, 06:40 PM
Forkboy
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RE: conservative cave has at least one member posting at LU

Third parties won't gain traction due to dismissal, but because the entire system, from the political arm to the media arm, is rigged against that happening. And the third parties aren't helping themselves by just popping up a year before an election, or by hoping to work from the top down instead of the bottom up. People, in general, will never take a chance on a third party without some kind of track record that shows they're ready for it. Third parties will start having bigger success once they've demonstrated they can achieve smaller successes. Top to bottom is basically trickle down politics, and we all know how trickle down theories tend to go. Bottom to top is the the only way they'll start to succeed, but it's going to take a long, long time. We see third parties as some kind of overnight savior, and it's not happening that way. Be upset at me for this view all you want, but I bet you don't prove me wrong before I die.

For every person that votes third party 100 more are filling the void with Dems and Repubs, because that's the only paradigm they're even aware of, or can even grasp in many cases. The only way to change that is to show them locally that these third parties can be successful and help them. Until they have that kind of track record serious traction nationally is simply not going to happen.

Voting for third parties is an ego stroke, a way to make us feel good about ourselves. It's attaching self-righteousness to a self back pat, and little more (speaking as someone who voted for the Green/Rainbow Party in Mass in 2006, knowing full well it was just to make myself feel good...it sure as hell didn't make any kind of statement to those in power). Following our conscience can be a very commendable thing, but let's not kid ourselves and attach some grand importance to that beyond the effect it has on ourselves. The elite don't give a wet fart who you vote for (and how confident are you that such a vote will be counted correctly anyways?).

I'm considering a write in, which is essentially the same thing as voting third party, but I'm not kidding myself. It's not a statement. It's me wanting to be able to sleep at night. Valid for myself, useless to everyone else. The only statement being made is to me.

The larger the election the less your vote matters. How many homeless in your area? We have a lot where I am. They need immediate help and don't have time to wait for a third party to come along that, against all odds and corruption and fixed elections, will somehow get to Washington, where they'll be met with a Repub and Dem filled Congress and Senate that won't want to see them succeed anyways (think the 2 parties are the same now...they'll be united like never before when they see their own parties threatened). Perhaps the majority of our energies are better spent locally, and then working outwards, than trying the other way around.

"You begin saving the world by saving one man at a time; all else is grandiose romanticism or politics." ~ Charles Bukowski

[Wineslob]

Smacked a small hornets nest?     

[franksolich]

Smacked a small hornets nest?     

Andrea has a thing about me, which I wish she didn't.

When AllentownJake first became prominent over there, myself being a nice guy, one of the nicest guys one can ever hope to meet, I offered to help him "build up" his own forum on her site.  As it turned out, I didn't contribute hardly anything at all, because I felt awkward about interfering.

But anyway, inbetweentimes Andrea and I became acquainted.

I would've left it at that, a casual acquaintanceship, but Andrea wanted a "closer relationship."

Nothing against Andrea herself; it's just that franksolich gets nervous about people pushing themselves on him.

<<sweats in cold terror when someone wants a closer relationship with.

Since I gently turned her away, she's been on my case.  For all I ever knew, Andrea could very well be a nice person and all that, and maybe even has money, but really, I'd just as soon keep my distance.  I was born a cold formal--but eminently polite and courteous--sort of person, and it's always best to keep on following one's natural bent.

[whiffleball]

Andrea has a thing about me, which I wish she didn't.

I would've left it at that, a casual acquaintanceship, but Andrea wanted a "closer relationship."

She's tenacious about carrying that torch.  And from afar.  Isn't that just a bit unnerving?

[chitownchica]

She's tenacious about carrying that torch.  And from afar.  Isn't that just a bit unnerving?

She has a stalkerish personality.  I remember a thread where she freaked out about some members taking her picture at a meetup, and how she was worried they were going to drive from a different state just to mess with her.  Seems like projection on her part.

[GOBUCKS]

Watch out, coach.

Crazy Andrea may sneak in the house and boil a cat.

[BlueStateSaint]

Watch out, coach.

Crazy Andrea may sneak in the house and boil a cat.

Somehow, I think that the Coach's cats would be able to handle themselves.

[Wineslob]

She has a stalkerish personality.  I remember a thread where she freaked out about some members taking her picture at a meetup, and how she was worried they were going to drive from a different state just to mess with her.  Seems like projection on her part.

Ya, but is she teh hawt?   

[OhioGringo]

Ya, but is she teh hawt?   

Errr...in a word, No. I've actually met her, you see. And if you ever did, I am sure you would be in whole-hearted agreement with this Socialist on at least one thing.

[docstew]

Oh, and to those posters on the LUniebin who don't want to have to hold their nose to vote, I'm sure the CPUSA will run a candidate. Vote for that person, or just write your own name in, or just don't vote at all. Don't reward 0bama with your vote if he hasn't earned it and has done nothing but "shaft" you for four years.