hypochondrial primitive looking to start a farm

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/115899

Oh my.

The hypochondrial primitive by the way lives in a fairly affluent part of Chicago.

She's not part of the 1%, but she's at least in the 3%.

mopinko (37,031 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail

steel buildings

so, i am buying a piece of vacant property, and basically looking to start a "farm".

i need a barn. i want something i can park a couple cars in, but also a little tractor, a giant snow blower, and winter home for chickens. prolly space for a project or 2 here and there.

this is a shoe string kinda thing, as we are maxing our home equity to buy it.

a steel pole barn sort of thing would probably be the most affordable, and likely ok building code wise. but can you get them with enough insulation to make it inhabitable/heatable? and is the design flexible enough for us to do some passive solar/natural light?

FSogol (10,610 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail

1. Yes, just search for "pre-fabricated metal building systems."

You can get them insulated or uninsulated. They usually design them to your desired footprint and can be created in almost and size and with whatever openings (doors, windows, louvers, etc) that you need.

Hassin Bin Sober (4,710 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail

2. I would be curious to see the cost difference...

... between a stick-built frame building versus what you are looking at.

I gotta think there is a bunch of mark-up and profit in any of this steel buildings...... but they might make up for it in efficiency.

The insulation piece is probably why I would stick with a conventional frame. They say you can insulate those steel buildings but at what R value?

When I eventually build something like what you are talking about, it will be double framed walls with about 12 inches of cellulose in the cavity. And truss roof filled high with cellulose.

I have spent my entire adult life in Chicago paying to heat poorly insulated buildings. Anything I build will be heatable by candle.... well maybe fireplace or wood stove.

mopinko (37,031 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail

3. concrete block?

i think i can get some masons pretty cheap.

Hmmmm.

It looks like the hypochondrial primitive still thinks the same way she always has.

She wants Old World Craftsmanship at illegal-alien-under-the-table-cash-wages.

Hassin Bin Sober (4,710 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail

5. That would be a good start.

You could always add rigid foam to the outside (leave yourself enough overhang) and a cellulose cavity on the inside later.

Overhang/eves - larg enough to keep ALL water off the side of a building. I've seen too many failures around doors and windows discussed on contractor websites (mold, rot etc.). Even now, there are huge debates going on about how best to keep moisture out.

My friend's mom had to put $60k in to her quality custom built 15 year old home in Michigan. She had rot under all her windows - paint failing, carpenter ants etc.

On the other hand, my in-laws just sold their 30 year old home with the siding, stain and windows as good as new - the one story on grade house has an 8 foot wrap around porch. The windows and siding never saw a drop of water. Let the roof and gutters handle ALL the water.

lumberjack_jeff (19,800 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail

4. why do you want it heatable?

In my experience, if you want it as a temporary dwelling while you build your house, it is better to make it tall enough that you can move an RV/travel trailer inside it, or buy a single wide mobile and live in that during construction. Heating a barn in winter (in a place where a snowblower is necessary), to the "habitable" range regardless of construction method will be cost prohibitive.

My shop is stick built because that's what one guy working alone (with an occasional helper) can do.

If you want it heatable so the chickens can survive, heat the 150 cu ft coop, not the 15,000 cu ft barn.

Insulation is useful to manage the relative humidity though.

In my area, most barns are of the "pole" variety (6x6 pressure treated posts buried 6' in concrete).

http://www.rochesterlumber.net/polebarns.html

mopinko (37,031 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail

6. just what i had in mind.

doesn't need to be heated so babies can live there. i am sure the chickens can survive without heat.

just thinking some nice passive solar, an array on the roof, and keep the place a little warmer than the outside.

maybe a wood stove if i had some project to work on.

snowblower doesn't get too much work, btw. bought it one record breaking winter when i also broke a finger, and just went nuts and bought it. it gets used every 4-5 years.

got a lot more to keep clear now, tho.

Sure, sure.

In Chicago, one uses a snow-blower only once every 4-5 years.

Yeah, sure.

Kolesar (26,148 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail

7. This $30 Solar Setup Heats a 30 X 40 Workshop for Five Hours or More Every Sunny Winter Day

Here is starting point.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/1977-11-01/Solar-Power-Heat.aspx

I don't know where you live, so I don't know how to design for heat loss. Dirt floor or concrete? Infiltration is the first problem. Gaps in the shell mean that air is going to leak out during a breeze or if the heater fan is on and creates a "pressure differential"

There was better article about a solar heated shop at ME, but I cannot find it.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I look forward to the chronicles of the Roanoke colony (Illiniois Branch).  LJ-Jeff is the saner head in that sample.  Those steel buildings are nice but definitely aren't cheap, erecting one to her specs would exceed the cost of the land out here in the pastoral Ozarks.

[GOBUCKS]

Before DUmmy mopinko gets her marijuana grow operation underway, she's gonna be buried in PMs from deadbeat DUmmies like grasswire, looking for a place to flop for free.

If you heat it, they will come.

[jukin]

I'm confident that Nadainbrain is an expert on steel buildings.

[AprilRazz]

Waiting on the post when this moron burns down a steel barn.

[diesel driver]

Kolesar (26,148 posts)

7. This $30 Solar Setup Heats a 30 X 40 Workshop for Five Hours or More Every Sunny Winter Day

Here is starting point.

http://www.motherearthnew...-01/Solar-Power-Heat.aspx

I don't know where you live, so I don't know how to design for heat loss. Dirt floor or concrete? Infiltration is the first problem. Gaps in the shell mean that air is going to leak out during a breeze or if the heater fan is on and creates a "pressure differential"

There was better article about a solar heated shop at ME, but I cannot find it.

The Mother Earth News article is from November 1977!   

That $30 solar heater setup will cost you $500 today (providing the EPA will let you construct it, the zoning board approves it, and the DUmmie "greases" enough Dimorat palms), under the leadership of Carter II.   

[Karin]

The Mother Earth News article is from November 1977!

The whole project is a serious and costly undertaking.  She goes to the DUmp asylum for advice?  What is it about that?  Do they figure that if a person pulls the lever for a D, then he must be a genius about all other things? 

[Rebel]

Waiting on the post when this moron burns down a steel barn.

 

Do you have the bigger version?

[vesta111]

Errrrr, barns are to to keep the elements off the animals, rain sleet or snow and a place to keep milk cows in one place to be able to milk them.    Barns are to shelter the animals in bad weather and a place to keep in one area, horses within reach not have to chase them down in a pasture.    Chickens have coops to lay their eggs and escape from enemy's.   Hogs have their pens to retreat to when they wish or need to go to.

Wooden barns even with all kinds of problems of missing siding and a few holes in the roof, fill up with the body heat the animals put out.    In time of power outage people will move into the barn for the warmth.

The heat generated in a barn full of these critters is high, their crap will steam adding more heat.

Building a barn made of steel siding needs allot of vents, fires start in stored hay that is kept enclosed, the heat from below will cause the hay to become a prime fact of combustible material. 

Animals spend allot of time in a barn, to be enclosed with limited air flow is to cause them to become ill.

Were I to want to build a barn, it would be of wood, not of a air tight material.

We do not build our own homes of air tight materials, few live today in a metal Quonset hut. Those that did in the past had plenty of windows to keep the air flow active.           

[AprilRazz]

 

Do you have the bigger version?

Wish I did. I can't even remember where I got it now. But if it makes a primitive cry and scream it was worth putting it up.