mountain man primitive was an idiot in the old Army; causes argument

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2210418

Oh my.

The mountain man primitive who, like all men, nightly pitches his tent one day's march nearer the mausoleum:

ThomWV  (1000+ posts)        Sat Oct-29-11 07:51 PM
Original message
 
I was in the old Army, when any idiot could serve.

I was watching an interview the other day on C-span, for the life of me I could not tell you who was being interviewed by who, but I do have a pretty good idea of what the subject was. For those of you who don't watch 'the sausage being made' every day there is a fierce battle being waged by the Department of Defense to keep its budget despite any attempts to cut so much as a dime out of it. Generals and Admirals have been scurrying all over Capital Hill.

So the conversation had to be about DOD budget cuts and as part of it one of the guys defended the all volunteer force we have today. He said, and his interviewer nodded agreement to more or less continuously, that the complexity of todays military tools is so great that only the best of trainees can handle the demands of service, can learn to operate the tools of war. A draft force would just bring in untrainable rabble, as likely to go AWOL as make it through their short term of service. That was their story.

It didn't make sense to me. Years ago I joined the Army but served with plenty of draftees. The only difference I could see between them and me was they were going to get out sooner. How can the military's mouth-pieces say they can only use the best and the brightest in the face of decreasing standards for enlistment that we've been told about for years now? It is reported that now-a-days people who were previously considered unfit to serve because of prior felony convictions can sign up with wavers - which are routinely granted. And what about the story that sneaks out now and then about the Air Force being run by a bunch of Religious Zealots, are they the special folks that we need in charge of not only the world's airspace but now the Space Command as well?

When the military demands that they need to chose who will serve because the common stock isn't qualified I think it tells us all that something just might be wrong and the answer to this one ain't 42.

former9thward  (1000+ posts)      Sat Oct-29-11 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. The old army was very inefficient.

The new army is much more professional. Why do you think there was massive drug use in Vietnam and virtually none in Iraq and Afghanistan? The old army was filled with draftees who did not give a **** and just wanted to get through there time without dying. The new army is much better at training and working with new high tech weapons. I would never want to see a return to the draft unless the country was attacked on our shores.

tabasco  (1000+ posts)        Sat Oct-29-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
4. Draftees won the Civl War, WWI and WWII.

Maybe your history classes only went back to the 70s.

former9thward  (1000+ posts)      Sat Oct-29-11 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
 
5. War is different now.

Previous wars were massive armies thrown at each other. Troops were glorified cannon fodder. Modern wars the U.S. has been involved with are being fought with technology primarily. Why do you think the Iraq/Afghanistan troop loss is about 5000 over 10 years while WW II was 500,000 loss over 3 1/2 years?

Laluchacontinua (106 posts)     Sun Oct-30-11 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
 
19. Funny that 70% of our casualties have no more than a HS education, since they're such a select bunch.

http://www.stonybrook.edu/workingclass/publications/Cas...

43% of enlistees cite their reason for enlisting as "economic" or "economic + patriotic".

"Americans who have died in Afghanistan are disproportionately white and Native American working class young people with no more than a high school education."

former9thward  (1000+ posts)      Sun Oct-30-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
 
23. The 'people go into the army because of poverty' crowd used to always claim the army was disproportionately black and minorities as proof. Now you are saying it is disproportionately white. Which is it? Are whites now poorer than blacks and Latinos? Just another example of when you have a preconceived agenda you will make any 'fact' support that agenda.

Laluchacontinua (106 posts)     Sun Oct-30-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #23

26. The fact is 70% of deaths = HS education or less. It doesn't really matter whether they're white, black or yellow -- they don't appear to be the select group you portray.

PS: There is no contradiction between black soldiers being overrepresented in Vietnam & not being overrepresented in today's military.

former9thward  (1000+ posts)      Sun Oct-30-11 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #26
 
32. You were the one who brought up the racial aspect and now you run away from it.

Facts are such pesky things. Why are obsessed about a H.S. education. Do you think people with "only a H.S. education" can't be trained or work with technology? How arrogant.

Laluchacontinua (106 posts)     Mon Oct-31-11 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #32

35. Yes, facts are pesky things, and I find that when I bring facts into the picture, often people are unable to respond coherently.

former9thward  (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-31-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #35
 
39. Yes, only you know the "facts"

All of the rest of us should bow to your brilliance. OK, got it.

Laluchacontinua (106 posts)     Mon Oct-31-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #39
 
40. If you care to provide a link for your "fact" I'll be happy to look at it.

Otherwise your claim is just an unsupported assertion.

former9thward  (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-31-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #40
 
42. Which "fact"

You are the one who posted contradictory "facts" which caused my response.

Laluchacontinua (106 posts)     Mon Oct-31-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #42

43. like i said.

PavePusher (1000+ posts)      Sun Oct-30-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
 
29. Education level is not the sole, or even primary, indicator of intelligence....and once in, we receive a LOT of training in a broad range of subjects. Much of it is directly translatable to college credits.

Laluchacontinua (106 posts)     Sun Oct-30-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
 
31. No one said it was. It has a reasonably good overlap with class & income however. And class background/income is the best correlate with IQ results there is.

PS: Just to make it clear: I personally don't accept IQ tests as a measure of some innate "intelligence" & the association with class is just one of many reasons.

Well, that argument goes away, and a new one sprouts up:

WinkyDink  (1000+ posts)      Sun Oct-30-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
 
25. Maybe Iraq and Afghanistan are smaller than THE ENTIRE WORLD?

former9thward  (1000+ posts)      Mon Oct-31-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #25
 
37. The ENTIRE WORLD was not at war in WW II

Sorry you failed that #worldhistorylesson

And then some other mini-arguments ensue, the primitives angrily wiggle-waggling their armpits at each other.

The mountain man primitive should've just kept quiet about the issue, for all the primitive squabbling it caused.

[Bodadh]

I kind of like this former9thward guy.


Tho I am sure he will say something sooner or later to ruin it.

[Texacon]

And class background/income is the best correlate with IQ results there is.

This is posted at the DUmp?  These are the people who claim to be extraordinarily intelligent yet ... they don't have 2 nickels to rub together?

 

 

KC

[DumbAss Tanker]

I kind of like this former9thward guy.


Tho I am sure he will say something sooner or later to ruin it.

Yeah, he keeps swinging the cluebat in that thread, but they keep claiming he missed them, despite the obvious bruises.

It's pretty easy to see why Thom couldn't tell the difference between himself and the draftees, he was no doubt just as big a drag on the unit as the worst of them were.

It's really not that everything is so high-tech that only geniuses can operate it by any means, the real difference is the motivation level, and the ability to give Soldiers a task and not have to stand over them making sure they actually do it from start to finish.  As far as high-school grads...in the days of conscription, or right afterward in Thom's army, a GED counted as highly-educated.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

I was in the old Army, when any idiot could serve.