DUmmies Discuss Combat Medics - Guess Who Shows Up

[GOBUCKS]

hedgehog  (1000+ posts)      Sun Sep-04-11 01:11 PM
Original message
Combat medics and EMTs: do they really have the same training?
I'm an Obama supporter, but I have to question his frequent suggestion that combat medics be allowed to return to civilian life and work as EMTs without having to go through further training.

Now - combat medics do an amazing job and are responsible for saving thousands of lives. My guess is they are trained to handle wounds from bullets and explosives, chiefly with young adults in good physical condition. My further guess is that EMTs see a much broader range of situations: the middle-aged man with a heart attack, the diabetic in coma, stroke victims, automobile accidents, drowning victims,etc. Without denigrating people in either field for the excellent work they do, are the job functions sufficiently different that medics would need additional training before being certified as an EMT?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1874818

TwilightGardener  (1000+ posts)      Sun Sep-04-11 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. They would almost certainly have to get certified in their states to become
an EMT-P (assuming they are at that level). They would have to take the exam and prove competency.

nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)        Sun Sep-04-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I worked side by side with a few, unoficially
so yes, they are... It would be a 20 hour course for the do's and don'ts... 

Once again, nutcase nadin confuses her little miniature GI Joe figurines with the real thing.

nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)        Sun Sep-04-11 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. Combat medics actually have a wider skill set
that set, in their first training round they are EMT- Basic, like any of their counterpart in civilian life. When they join combat units on patrol they are what you would call intermediate EMTS, aka they can start IVs and use SOME MEDS to fully fledged EMT-P... a few, like Corpsmen attached to subs, are actually well beyond an EMT-P. They are actually certified Physician Assistants, which is well beyond an EMT-P training wise.

Unofficially we used to take american military medics out on calls... and their skill set were just as good as mine, and fully equivalent. 

 
It's good to know that our military medics, or as their Commander-In-Chief likes to say, corpse-men, are as competent as nutcase nadin and her
federales.

But I'll bet nadin's group is a hell of a lot better at spreading mulch.

[franksolich]

Oh, I dunno about this deal, civilian-trained EMTs dealing with a wider variety of people.

It's been my misfortune to have to use the skills of an EMT-P two times the past year and a half.

He got his training in the U.S. Navy; I dunno if he had to get more stuff after turning civilian.

But it was obvious it was his military training that made him so competent.

[JohnnyReb]

"My guess is they are trained to handle wounds from bullets and explosives, chiefly with young adults in good physical condition."...Obama knows he gets just about all the votes cast by that civilian group....and he wants the best, most experienced care for them.

[franksolich]

"My guess is they are trained to handle wounds from bullets and explosives, chiefly with young adults in good physical condition."...Obama knows he gets just about all the votes cast by that civilian group....and he wants the best, most experienced care for them.

That's something I never thought about, sir.

And it very well may be true.

[Skul]

nadinbrzezinski  (1000+ posts)        Sun Sep-04-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I worked side by side with a few, unoficially
>snip<

 
Freaking loser.

[jukin]

Would those be corpsemen?

[DumbAss Tanker]

The DUmmie in the OP is clearly unfamiliar with military medicine, and the level of training mentioned (And pooh-poohed) would be that given any and all soldiers.  At least one soldier per squad or crew (That's every 4-12 troopers for lurking DUmmies to which the military is an alien planet) must also be combat lifesaver qualified, which involves a 40-hour course.  Their focus is indeed on traumatic battle injuries, but then they aren't even
medics.

When you get to the actual medics, they have much more thorough training and when not deployed work at least some of their rotations in military clinics and hospitals where they see wives, kids, and retirees and aging spouses of retirees, not just those young, fit battlefield soldiers.  During deployments, these are also the ones who go out to see the local villagers and treat their owies and sniffles to make friends, on any one of those milk-and-cookie missions they will see and treat things a purely-civilian paramedic in the US would never see in an entire career.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Actually, DAT, the POI has been whittled down to 16 hrs for CLS. At least where I teach it, the RTI at FCC.

They discontinued the IV POI as well. Just as well I suppose. CLSs are supposed to free-up the medic to attend other concerns but the IVs were requiring so much supervision or correction from the medic it was too little juice for all the squeeze.

 
Freaking loser.

Assuming Nadin has any US EMT experience she may be semi-telling the truth.

EMT-B training is mandatory for all 68Ws and whenever logistically possible they try to get the trainee to ride along with ambulance services or FDs. Green beret medics and those who go through their abbreviated course (SEAL and Ranger medics etc) do 30-day rotations at a Tier I trauma center where they have to work in EVERY ward up to and including delivering 3 live births in order to get their EMT-P. Rumor Control says flight medics may soon have to get their EMT-P as well although no word as to whether it's just the cert or if it will require a rotation.

There's nothing unofficial about any of this, though. The DoD is more than happy to pimp-out its troops for the experience and the goodwill of the community.

[Tucker]

Actually, DAT, the POI has been whittled down to 16 hrs for CLS. At least where I teach it, the RTI at FCC.

They discontinued the IV POI as well. Just as well I suppose. CLSs are supposed to free-up the medic to attend other concerns but the IVs were requiring so much supervision or correction from the medic it was too little juice for all the squeeze.

Assuming Nadin has any US EMT experience she may be semi-telling the truth.

EMT-B training is mandatory for all 68Ws and whenever logistically possible they try to get the trainee to ride along with ambulance services or FDs. Green beret medics and those who go through their abbreviated course (SEAL and Ranger medics etc) do 30-day rotations at a Tier I trauma center where they have to work in EVERY ward up to and including delivering 3 live births in order to get their EMT-P. Rumor Control says flight medics may soon have to get their EMT-P as well although no word as to whether it's just the cert or if it will require a rotation.

There's nothing unofficial about any of this, though. The DoD is more than happy to pimp-out its troops for the experience and the goodwill of the community.

If Nadin reads this, her ego will grow ten fold.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

If Nadin reads this, her ego will grow ten fold.

Infinity times 10 is still infinity.

[DumbAss Tanker]

You talking AC or RC, MSB?  Of course it wouldn't surprise me to find out it had been reduced in the last couple of years, 40 hours was a Hell of a lot of time to commit for troops in deployment cycle.  They did use the IV quite a bit in theater though, more for heat stroke emergency hydration than blood loss...generally by medics, there were enough of them on the ground that it didn't often come up that the CLS had to 'Take a stab.'

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

We train both active and Guard at the RTI; although the active obviously have their own assets in addition to our meager offerings. I honestly don't know if a strictly active component CLS class would be longer than 16 hours but as the same medical authority at Ft Sam, blesses off on the NG course I cannot imagine it being too different.

Yeah, that whole hydration thing. That pisses me the **** off. Running with the legs meant my only fluid supply was on my back and to have someone cramp-up, puke and then cry for my saline would always set me off. Even moreso if they claim hangover.

Fluid = weight

I'm not here to carry people's canteens for them.

I bitch up a storm when junior enlisted claim they can't stay hydrated with a Camel-Bak available and their 1st line leadership often caught a taste as well. In Florida the unit I was in would hand you an AR15 to go with your IV.

And if you're going to drink like a man you can ****ing work like a man the next goddam day!



Did I mention I'm a bit pissy about IVs?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

OMFG!

I went into that thread and those people are goddam morons. They should be forced to catch hammers with their faces for being that goddam stupid.

Case in point:

hedgehog  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list       Sun Sep-04-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Apparently, that's the controversy - that combat medics have to
   
take training and/or an exam before working as an EMT. I think both groups have excellent training and experience, I'm just wondering how much overlap there is. It may well be possible that a combat medic is missing training in certain functions that are routine for an EMT, simply because one is trained for a battle field and the other handles civilian crises.

We use EMT training to organize our PT history, i.e. how to take a good SAMPLE history.

Apart from that my skill set trumps the EMT-B cert I carry.

saras  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list       Sun Sep-04-11 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. I would expect EMTs to have a lot more concern for the patient's experience than combat medics...
   
...but I'm not sure that this is a training issue, so much as a hiring the right people independent of skills issue.

In actual medical emergencies, combat medics may have more training and more experience, but that isn't the only, or even the only important, part of an EMT's job.

**** you ****

Lisa0825  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list       Sun Sep-04-11 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. I recruit for some medical positions, and we consider medical corpsman as equivalent to EMT. nt

EMT-B is basically "load and go." They can't do much more than that.

I can throw stitches, advanced airways, chest tube, give morphine etc etc etc. ...any advanced techniques so long as my licensed provider blesses off on it.

And corpsmen can do more than that.

RSillsbee  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list       Sun Sep-04-11 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
20. All US Army Medical Specialists (91B)
   
Go through the EMT basic course at Ft. Sam Houston in San Antonio during AIT and graduate as NREMT-Bs

A 91C is a licensed LPN

An 18D ( Special Forces medical Sgt.) has training equivalent to a PA

It's 68W after having been 91W from 91B from 91A when I was first active.

91 series is another animal these days.

18D is NOT a Physician's Asst equivalent as many 18D later study to go on to that formally licensed title. In fact, the NCOIC I work under at FCC is a former 18D and he's busting his hump to get his PA license even though in practice he can do as much, if not more.



The only person who didn't embarrass herself in that thread was Nuclear Unicorn because she had the good sense to take off her clothes and do what the nice medic told her to do.

[GOBUCKS]

If Nadin reads this, her ego will grow ten fold.

If? You can't be serious! You think someone who puts this much effort into a DOTY campaign doesn't read every word here?
I'm sure nutcase nadin check in here as often as she does at the DUmp and at Google.
But there's little room for her ego to expand beyond its already enormous mass.

[BlueStateSaint]

If? You can't be serious! You think someone who puts this much effort into a DOTY campaign doesn't read every word here?
I'm sure nutcase nadin check in here as often as she does at the DUmp and at Google.
But there's little room for her ego to expand beyond its already enormous mass.

And the bolded is your flaw.  You're thinking as a rational human being would.  These are DUmb****s we're writing about here.  One has to think as a DUmb**** . . . but maybe that's not something one should do regularly.

I don't know how you moles do it.      

[NHSparky]

I look at the IDC's on both my boats, and I've never ceased to be amazed at their skill.

And their ability to sleep 20 hours a day when warranted.  (Kidding!)

ETA: Cause I can't use proper English.

[Gwitness]

Combat Medic is what my son is getting ready to enlist  for.