MineralMan finds life complicated

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1870143

Oh my.

MineralMan  (1000+ posts)        Sat Sep-03-11 02:31 PM
Original message
 
The Right to Do as You Please... 

It's a great thing in this country, but with it comes another right: the right to disapprove of what people do. The Green Day guy who got kicked off the plane for wearing his pants too low made me think of that. I think he has the right to do that, but I also think the other passengers have the right to sing "Pants on the Ground" loudly in the waiting area at the gate.

It all reminds me of something that happened back in the early 1970s. In those days, my hair was halfway down my back, since I was being Mr. Natural back then. Well, my wife and I flew to Iowa for a reunion of her family, along with her parents. We all stayed in a pretty decent hotel in Cedar Rapids. It was late October. Well, the hotel had a really nice swimming pool and, since I was bored with much of what was going on, I decided I'd take advantage of that pool on a regular basis while staying in the hotel.

Trouble was, there was a sign on the door into the pool area that read, "Guests with long hair must wear bathing caps." Hmm...OK. So I ventured out in the rental car to buy a bathing cap. In October. In Iowa. Not possible. I didn't want to the break the hotel rules, which made sense. Long hair plays havoc with filters, etc. So...what to do? I wanted to swim. I had long hair. I had no bathing cap.

So, what did I do? Well, the hotel also had a barber shop, with a very nice woman as the barber. So, I walked in there and said, "Take it off, down to an inch and a half long." She got a horrified look on her face and said, "Are you sure? I mean, I don't want you angry at me." I said, "Sure, go ahead." She suggested that I donate the long hair to some organization that made wigs for kids getting chemo, so I agreed. Off the hair came. I've worn my hair shortish ever since then.

The bottom line is that I had the right to wear my hair as I chose. But, the hotel had the right to make rules about its swimming pool. I wanted to swim. So, I made a decision that swimming that week mattered more than my long wavy locks. We all make decisions like that all the time. Rights are great, but having the right to do something doesn't imply that others do not have the right to make sensible rules about your exercise of that right. Decisions, decisions.

The Velveteen Ocelot  (1000+ posts)        Sat Sep-03-11 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. I read a little about the pants controversy, and I think sometimes the airlines (especially Southwest) tend to go overboard as clothing police. Seems to me that if a passenger isn't exposing a part of him/herself that generally isn't exposed to the public, it isn't up to some bluenosed gate agent or flight attendant to decide that person shouldn't be allowed to board the airplane.

Also, I am wondering just how low that guy's pants were. If they were hanging so low that they were wrapped around his knees (the "fashion" seems to involve baggy pants hanging very low below visible boxer shorts and sort of gathered around the knees, impairing the wearer's ability to move easily), then there's a possible safety problem: i.e., would the guy be able to get out of the airplane quickly in an emergency? However, you could ask the same question about a lot of clothing styles, including long skirts, and I've never heard of the wearer of a long skirt or dress being kicked off a plane.

People can choose to comply with reasonable rules or decline the service of the maker of the rules. However, rules shouldn't be arbitrary - I think people should be able reasonably to expect an airline not to deny boarding as long as they are not exposing parts that are not usually exposed in public, or not wearing something that would present a safety hazard.

MineralMan  (1000+ posts)        Sat Sep-03-11 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
3. Yes, that's always the question, which I'm not really addressing. 

Is the airline's rule sensible? Personally, I don't think so, and the airline has already apologized to the baggy panted musician. He chose not to comply with what he thought was a stupid rule. I could have chosen to leave my hair long, as well. I could even have gone into the pool without a bathing cap. Odds are that nobody would have bothered me about it. However, that rule was a sensible one, so I decided to adapt to it. Every situation requires a decision. Virtually everything we do involves some sort of compromise or another.

Being obstinate about something is a right we all have. Looking the way you do is a right as well. Everyone has rights. Even corporations have some rights. And, as with the hotel's decision to require that long hair be contained so it wouldn't increase their pool maintenance costs, a decision was necessary on my part. We make decisions almost constantly that involve our rights and the rights of others in some way. Living in a society demands that kind of decision-making. Each of us has lines we draw, but all of those lines can be changed by the person who drew them.

Life's complicated.

baldguy  (1000+ posts)      Sat Sep-03-11 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. Your rights end where mine begin.

You have the right to express your disapproval of what I say, how I look or what I'm wearing. But you have no "right" to go through life without being offended. Now if someone whats to wear their hair or their trousers down around their knees I may think of them as a fool, but to paraphrase Tommy J., "It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

MineralMan  (1000+ posts)        Sat Sep-03-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
 
4. Well, yes. And that's the point of my post, really. 

Decisions. Everyone decides where their lines are and why they are there. Conflict is always a part of every society and the people who make it up. The conflicts are many, and the decisions are often difficult.

HughBeaumont  (1000+ posts)        Sat Sep-03-11 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
 
5. So you're pretty much saying a bully has the RIGHT to be an asshole?

There were people in my high school that were offended by my very existence and made fun of me daily for it. Was it their right to? I can change pants, I can cut hair, but I can't change me. Should I have just disappeared?

And even if I wanted to wear my hair long (used to be three feet long, BTW) or wear my pants down to my knees, what the hell business is it of ANYones that I want to do so?

What if exchanges of "rights" leads to violence or death (the right to wear what you want vs the right for people offended by choice to make fun of you for it)? Is it still right then?

They're ****ing pants. There are far more worrisome things in this world to take to task.

MineralMan  (1000+ posts)        Sat Sep-03-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
 
8. It was just hair. I made a decision. 

If you cannot change something and are discriminated against for that thing, then your rights take precedence. If the hotel sign said, "No blacks, hispanics, asians, or GLBT people in the pool," my response would be completely different. It was hair. If I wanted to swim, I could try to find a cap, cut my hair, or not swim. I had many options. Two of them would make it possible to swim. the third would have been my decision.

Where there is no decision possible, then the rule is wrong, since it is not sensible or reasonable.

This story is not about bullies.

MineralMan  (1000+ posts)        Sat Sep-03-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
 
13. Actually, people do have the right to be assholes. 

Some make a career of it. Some run for office. Some do other things.

Bullying is something completely different. While bullies are assholes, not all assholes are bullies.

whatchamacallit  (1000+ posts)        Sat Sep-03-11 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
 
7. Let us know when you post part 2

You know, the part with a point.

MineralMan  (1000+ posts)        Sat Sep-03-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
 
11. Not every story has a point that is clear. 

This one did. You appear to have missed it.

Bluenorthwest  (1000+ posts)      Sat Sep-03-11 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
 
14. People in my family who were in the hospitality business and had pools and rules for those pools always kept extra caps for men who were not prepared, in case they thought the hair was too long for the filter. That way they avoided all the fuss and muss. They were prepared for courteous enforcement of the rules they felt were necessary, rather than arbitrary of inconvenient enforcement of the rules. I even remember the signs being remade to read 'people with long hair must' instead of 'women must' regarding the caps. It was a quite the issue, back during the dawn of the unisex hair ear....

So I'd say a box of extra bathing caps cheaply and easily makes for a better solution for all involved, more frequently, with less customer dissatisfaction.

Book Lover (1000+ posts)      Sat Sep-03-11 06:06 PM
Response to Original message

16. I'm still waiting for your explanation of how that gentleman's clothes endangered the safe operation of the airplane. Your long hair could have damaged the pool filter, I get that. His clothing would have made the flight dangerous how?

The Velveteen Ocelot  (1000+ posts)        Sat Sep-03-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
 
18. It is possible that they might have made it difficult for him to evacuate the aircraft in an emergency. If they were so loose that they could have fallen down or caught on something while he tried to crawl out through an overwing exit, arguably they could have presented a safety hazard. However, the same might be said for long skirts, and I've never heard of anyone (like a nun, for example) being 86'd off an airplane because they were wearing a long dress. I don't know what the FA told the guy, or if it was ever suggested to him that his pants were "unsafe," if, in fact, they were that loose and baggy.

[Rugnuts]

It all reminds me of something that happened back in the early 1970s......

....She suggested that I donate the long hair to some organization that made wigs for kids getting chemo, so I agreed. Off the hair came. I've worn my hair shortish ever since then.

ok im still new at this but...


did they have chemo and hair donation charity's for cancer patients back in the 70's?

if not wouldnt this be a " "

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

I guess it's hard to tell the difference between having long hair and showing your underwear for someone with his head up his ass.

[JohnnyReb]

Me and my crew were coming home from work one day and a cop car went flying by us at the stop light. He slid into the grocery store parking lot on the corner. The light changed and we finally got to turn right. About that time a black teenager comes flying out of the store with the cop in a hot foot race behind him. Down at the lower edge of the parking lot was a chain link fence about waist high. The black kid turns loose of his pants and tries to jump the fence. The pants are so low he can't get his legs spread apart enough to jump the fence. His feet and baggie pants catch on top of the fence and he hit the ground face first "HARD" ...with the cop landing right on top of him.... ....My crew were dying laughing and pointing at the fool. I'm sure that hurt him more than anything the law did to him.

[thundley4]

baldguy  (1000+ posts)      Sat Sep-03-11 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. Your rights end where mine begin.

You have the right to express your disapproval of what I say, how I look or what I'm wearing. But you have no "right" to go through life without being offended. Now if someone whats to wear their hair or their trousers down around their knees I may think of them as a fool, but to paraphrase Tommy J., "It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

Yet DUmmies are the first ones to claim offense at the slightest thing. 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Yet DUmmies are the first ones to claim offense at the slightest thing. 

And, as their numerous boycotts will attest, they demand to use their voices to convince others to act in a way they deem fitting.

So the passengers on the flight did likewise.

[tanstaafl]

whatchamacallit  (1000+ posts)        Sat Sep-03-11 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
 
7. Let us know when you post part 2

You know, the part with a point.

And Whosit sneaks up behind MineralMan, snaps a wet towel at his butt and skitters away. That had to hurt.

[Skul]

The Velveteen Ocelot  (1000+ posts)  

Every time I see this one, I can not help but be reminded of those cheap Mexican oil paintings of Elvis.
...or Tiger...or...whatever.
Y'all have seen them.

No offence intended, Mexico.

One last thing.

MineralMan  (1000+ posts)        Sat Sep-03-11 02:31 PM
Original message
>snip<
So, what did I do? Well, the hotel also had a barber shop, with a very nice woman as the barber. So, I walked in there and said, "Take it off, down to an inch and a half long." She got a horrified look on her face and said, "Are you sure? I mean, I don't want you angry at me." I said, "Sure, go ahead." She suggested that I donate the long hair to some organization that made wigs for kids getting chemo, so I agreed.
>snip<

My wife does that. She's a Reagan Republican.
Tell us how much we don't care about others, rockboy.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I'm with Southwest.  You want on the plane?  Dress like a human.

[GOBUCKS]

ok im still new at this but...


did they have chemo and hair donation charity's for cancer patients back in the 70's?

No.
DUmmies lie. All the time, and every time.
Even on matters of life and death, DUmmies always, without exception, are contemptible, damnable liars.

[Skul]

HughBeaumont  (1000+ posts)        Sat Sep-03-11 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
 
5. So you're pretty much saying a bully has the RIGHT to be an asshole?

There were people in my high school that were offended by my very existence and made fun of me daily for it. Was it their right to? I can change pants, I can cut hair, but I can't change me. Should I have just disappeared?

Ever, did once in your pea brain, did you think there was a reason for that?
Thought not.

Listen, DUmbasses. When you get on a big silver bird, your steamer trunk will NOT fit in the overhead.
You break my overhead, and you piss off more than me.
FA's are pissed, other pax are pissed, and mostly, I'm gonna be pissed.
I will delay your departure in a heart beat. Just for you.
Make it easy, check the damn bag, OK?
If there is shit in your carry-on, that you might need, take it out before you walk down the jetway.
When you get to your assigned seat, sit your sorry ass down, and stay there.
Pull your damn pants up too, while you're at it.