Author Topic: attorneys being esquiral  (Read 1806 times)

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Offline franksolich

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attorneys being esquiral
« on: April 27, 2008, 05:25:29 PM »
Earlier today, while researching campaign donations--a primitive had made the ludicrous allegation he had donated "the maximum amount" to a certain political candidate; never mind who--I came across something intriguing.

Usually I don't pay attention, but whenever a primitive or sub-primitive alleges a "maximum" contribution, the nose tickles, and searches.  If a primitive alleges simply a donation, no big deal, not worth the time and trouble.

But as the Leona Helmsley of DUmmieland, "flyarm," and the richboy the Bostonian Drunkard are the only primitives in any circumstances to make "maximum donations" (but as neither of them talk about it, franksolich leaves them alone), whenever another primitive alleges the "maximum," I check it out, finding as usual the primitive lied.

I go down the list of contributors, and notice that attorneys in many areas use the title "esquire."

I had noticed that while living in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, but never paid attention.

It seems silly to me.

One finds them once in a while in Nebraska, but probably 999 out of every 1000 attorneys in Nebraska don't use the title, probably as it smacks of elitism, which doesn't sell well with decent civilized people.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 05:27:01 PM by franksolich »
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Offline mamacags

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Re: attorneys being esquiral
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2008, 05:40:55 PM »
They use it here a lot but talk about your liberal elite.  Some of these people are first generation but want everyone to think they are a Mayflower progeny. :whatever:
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Offline franksolich

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Re: attorneys being esquiral
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2008, 06:01:01 PM »
They use it here a lot but talk about your liberal elite.  Some of these people are first generation but want everyone to think they are a Mayflower progeny. :whatever:

Well, that's what gets me about it, Moms.

An attorney is perfectly fine to attach a "J.D." or "LL.D." after his name, as a title, much as physicians use "M.D." or registered nurses use "R.N." or college professors use "Ph.D."

Nothing wrong with that; after all, that states their qualifications in some matter.

But to me, "Esq." is strongly suggestive of powered wigs and tight pants, and as an always-potential-consumer of legal services, (I'm always only "potential," though), I doubt I would want any powdered wigs and tight pants doing anything for me. 

To me, this is just silly, pompous.
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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: attorneys being esquiral
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2008, 06:02:49 PM »
I've seen it here but I'm also in the D.C. area.
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Offline morningAngel

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Re: attorneys being esquiral
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2008, 06:12:47 PM »
3 lawyers in the county here, everyone uses their first name to greet them, in a conversation they use their last name....  such as "I saw Sears the other day and asked him..."

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: attorneys being esquiral
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2008, 06:25:36 PM »
I answered 'Yes,' however the ones who did were people I encountered in South Jersey and Philly, it's pretty much unheard of in my parts of IN and MO, the states where I'm admitted to practice (I was working a Fed job out there, you don't have to be local state bar member for that). 

I regard it as a silly affectation.
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Offline formerlurker

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Re: attorneys being esquiral
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2008, 06:32:50 PM »
It's esq here in MA -- very rarely see jd, if at all.    So common here I never have given it a second thought.   

Offline franksolich

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Re: attorneys being esquiral
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2008, 06:44:12 PM »
I answered 'Yes,' however the ones who did were people I encountered in South Jersey and Philly, it's pretty much unheard of in my parts of IN and MO, the states where I'm admitted to practice (I was working a Fed job out there, you don't have to be local state bar member for that). 

I regard it as a silly affectation.

I always suspected you weren't the powdered wig and tight pants type.

But of course that's one of the many things that separate us from the primitives.
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Offline megimoo

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Re: attorneys being esquiral
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2008, 06:47:17 PM »
Earlier today, while researching campaign donations--a primitive had made the ludicrous allegation he had donated "the maximum amount" to a certain political candidate; never mind who--I came across something intriguing.

Usually I don't pay attention, but whenever a primitive or sub-primitive alleges a "maximum" contribution, the nose tickles, and searches.  If a primitive alleges simply a donation, no big deal, not worth the time and trouble.

But as the Leona Helmsley of DUmmieland, "flyarm," and the richboy the Bostonian Drunkard are the only primitives in any circumstances to make "maximum donations" (but as neither of them talk about it, franksolich leaves them alone), whenever another primitive alleges the "maximum," I check it out, finding as usual the primitive lied.

I go down the list of contributors, and notice that attorneys in many areas use the title "esquire."

I had noticed that while living in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, but never paid attention.

It seems silly to me.

One finds them once in a while in Nebraska, but probably 999 out of every 1000 attorneys in Nebraska don't use the title, probably as it smacks of elitism, which doesn't sell well with decent civilized people.

Some random comments on the title Esquire :

The Uncivil Litigator said...
Since the title in question is not being granted by the United States, but by the state bar association or simply the individual himself, there is no constitutional violation. Indeed, using "Esq." is actually an exercise of the powers reserved to the states under the 11th Amendment. So if you love your country and your constitution, you WILL use the title.

No title of nobility? It's Esquire not Count. My understanding was that the derivation was from the landed gentry. Indeed, I seem to recall that in 17th Century Colonial America most gentlemen were addressed as Equire (not from actual memory but from reading and stuff). But if anyone wants to call me Count, I would have no objection

Just a thought on the ability to identify an attorney by the use of "Esq.":

As there is no legal definition of who may and who may not use the honorific, I contend that anyone may sign their documents in such a manner, and thus negate your ability to tell the difference.

Other than that, the use of the term does appear to be pretentious. In its original usage, it conveyed a sense of respectability. However, in my small town, there are two attorneys (of 3 total in town) who use the "honorific", that are considered by most of the community to exist at a level one step lower than pond scum. So much for respectability.

 subvanpatent said...
I just graduated from law school and Googled the proper use of Esq. I found a web site that showed how to properly use titles. It said that Esq. could be used for a lawyer, an architech, a professional engineer and a JP. So it sounds like it sounds like is more than for lawyers. ihttp://www.taft.cc.ca.us/newTC/Academic/LiberalArts/OWL/forms_

Howard W Berry, Esq. said...
Well if you're British, like I am, Esquire is used as a polite title appended to a man's name when no other title is used, typically in the address of a letter or other documents : Robert A. Pearson Esquire.

I reqularly write letters addressed to John Smith, Esq. and regularly receive letters addressed to me with Esq. at the end of my name. It's good manners and etiquette in the British Isles to write it.

I'm not claiming to be a lawyer or a young nobleman in training for knighthood, nor am I an officer in the service of Royalty, a landed proprietor or country squire. I am just a person for whom no other title is applicable who engages in correct letter writing etiquette.

"ORIGIN late Middle English : from Old French esquier, from Latin scutarius ‘shield-bearer,’ from scutum ‘shield’ "







Offline phillygirl

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Re: attorneys being esquiral
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2008, 07:01:03 PM »
Everyone in my county uses it.  I was always under the (perhaps mistaken) notion that use of J.D. meant you had received the degree, but did not have proper bar admission.  In some counties in my state (more upstate, and midstate) they use the title "Attorney" as in Attorney Smith, when identifying themselves.  Perhaps becomes I'm not accustomed to that, I always found it a bit pretentious to be called Attorney Smith.  Sort of like PhD's that insist that I call them "Dr.".

Offline franksolich

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Re: attorneys being esquiral
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2008, 07:27:33 PM »
Everyone in my county uses it.  I was always under the (perhaps mistaken) notion that use of J.D. meant you had received the degree, but did not have proper bar admission.  In some counties in my state (more upstate, and midstate) they use the title "Attorney" as in Attorney Smith, when identifying themselves.  Perhaps becomes I'm not accustomed to that, I always found it a bit pretentious to be called Attorney Smith.  Sort of like PhD's that insist that I call them "Dr.".

I dunno; I've never seen an attorney use "J.D.," although it makes sense if they did.

Around here, the sort-of-redundant term is used, "John Doe, Attorney at Law."

Never just "Attorney;" always "Attorney at Law."

By the way, what's the difference between a "J.D." and an "LL.D." since they're both attorneys--er, attorneys at law.
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Offline Lord Undies

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Re: attorneys being esquiral
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2008, 07:39:09 PM »
I use to do work for a client who had satellite offices in Michigan who did a lot of business with a John Barrister, Attorney-at-Law.   I though his last name was ripe with possibilities and redundancies.  I don't remember seeing Barrister, Esq. tho.

Offline phillygirl

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Re: attorneys being esquiral
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2008, 08:24:28 PM »
Everyone in my county uses it.  I was always under the (perhaps mistaken) notion that use of J.D. meant you had received the degree, but did not have proper bar admission.  In some counties in my state (more upstate, and midstate) they use the title "Attorney" as in Attorney Smith, when identifying themselves.  Perhaps becomes I'm not accustomed to that, I always found it a bit pretentious to be called Attorney Smith.  Sort of like PhD's that insist that I call them "Dr.".

I dunno; I've never seen an attorney use "J.D.," although it makes sense if they did.

Around here, the sort-of-redundant term is used, "John Doe, Attorney at Law."

Never just "Attorney;" always "Attorney at Law."

By the way, what's the difference between a "J.D." and an "LL.D." since they're both attorneys--er, attorneys at law.

I don't know of a difference.  I've never seen LL.D used.  It's a doctorate of laws degree, so it's the same level as a JD.  The only other designation I've seen is an LL.M.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: attorneys being esquiral
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2008, 08:37:30 PM »
A lawyer walked into a bar...

...and sued because the bar wasn't clearly marked.
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