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Author Topic: Should ATF Be Disbanded For "Fast and Furious"  (Read 1689 times)

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Offline Ptarmigan

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Should ATF Be Disbanded For "Fast and Furious"
« on: July 07, 2011, 06:44:47 PM »
Should the ATF be disbanded?
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Should ATF Be Disbanded For "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2011, 05:49:49 AM »
If not disbanded, at least largely reduced in size and scope.

We have far too many Federal agencies that are not receiving enough Congressional oversight.

The Department of Homeland Security/TSA and the EPA are other prime examples.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Should ATF Be Disbanded For "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2011, 07:07:58 AM »
It should have been disbanded decades ago, but then as now, it won't be.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Should ATF Be Disbanded For "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2011, 07:25:06 AM »
This is government incrementalism at its worst. Begun initially as an arm of the government to ensure that taxes associated with alcohol were paid, and then when various gun control laws were passed at the federal level, the name of this "bureau" shifted here and there to accommodate the new "area of responsibility".  :whatever:

Government exists to serve itself FIRST. Therefore, the ATF has made itself "invaluable" to Congress and virtually ALL administrations, irrespective of party.

All that said, from what I've read, this "Fast and Furious" thing was a giant cluster**** from beginning to end, and in true "It wasn't me!" fashion, Melson, the Dickhead in charge, refuses to take the fall for it.

The government. Here to help.

Got your tube of KY?  :loser:

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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Should ATF Be Disbanded For "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2011, 09:18:14 AM »
As much as I dislike them, they do fulfill a necessary function.  I used to own a fully-legal NFA weapon, and actually found their permit/paperwork staff to be very conscientious and helpful.  The real problems are in the Gestapo/Judge Dredd mindset of the enforcement branch, and the DOJ's institutional unwillingness to deal with it.

Since there are huge liability issues involved in their bloody screw-ups (And subsequent cover-ups), and DOJ is also charged with defending ATF and the government generally from lawsuits, there is an inherent conflict of interest in DOJ supervising or investigating them itself, which also needs to be dealt with.     
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Offline RightCoast

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Re: Should ATF Be Disbanded For "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2011, 09:57:23 PM »
Yes. And Holder should go to jail.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Should ATF Be Disbanded For "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2011, 10:39:05 PM »
Hell yeah! ...but I would have told you that before this shit.
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Offline ExGeeEye

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Re: Should ATF Be Disbanded For "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2011, 05:52:03 AM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on July 08, 2011, 09:18:14 AM
As much as I dislike them, they do fulfill a necessary function.  I used to own a fully-legal NFA weapon, and actually found their permit/paperwork staff to be very conscientious and helpful.  The real problems are in the Gestapo/Judge Dredd mindset of the enforcement branch, and the DOJ's institutional unwillingness to deal with it.

Since there are huge liability issues involved in their bloody screw-ups (And subsequent cover-ups), and DOJ is also charged with defending ATF and the government generally from lawsuits, there is an inherent conflict of interest in DOJ supervising or investigating them itself, which also needs to be dealt with.    

DAT, if COTUS 2A was read, understood, and observed correctly, there wouldn't have been any permits, paperwork, or enforcement branches to deal with.  There would not be a question of whether a firearm was fully legal or not.

Fantasies about backyard nukes and similar strawmen aside, it used to be that way.  Before 1934, artillery and machine guns were legal to anyone with the scratch to buy them.  Guns were sold over the counter and by mail order.

(If COTUS 2A was read like COTUS 5A, the state would have to issue a sidearm to any citizen who demonstrated a lack of ability to afford one.)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 05:54:42 AM by ExGeeEye »
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Offline FiddyBeowulf

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Re: Should ATF Be Disbanded For "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2011, 08:00:44 AM »
I got an email from the NRA about a new twist on this. One of the people the ATF was tracking with intent to arrest was a paid FBI CI (confidential informant). The FBI was using him to alert them to any terrorism activity along the border.  :thatsright:

Related article
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