http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=236x86395Oh my.
grasswire (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-13-11 06:38 PM
THE PIE-AND-JAM FARMERETTE PRIMITIVE
Original message
what non-sugar sweetener do you prefer for baking?
I've never worked with anything but cane sugar. Got any tips to share?
Denninmi (693 posts) Sun Mar-13-11 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Splenda is very good for many applications.
It's fine to sweeten fruit pies, custard/pudding based pies, and cakes. It doesn't function the same exact way sugar does, so some cookies work (the more moist, cake like ones), whereas it doesn't necessarily work as well in more pastry/shortbread type cookies.
I find that, despite the fact it claims to measure 1 for 1, it's too strong and a bit bitter if I use an equal amount. I generally use between 1/2 and 3/4ths of the amount of sugar called for, depending upon the other ingredients.
Saccharin is just nasty, IMO, and aspartame isn't heat stable, so that one is out. I haven't tried Stevia (Truvia) yet, so I can't really say whether or not it works.
If nothing else, I guess experimentation and consulting a lot of low sugar cookbooks, diabetic cookbooks, etc. would help find techniques and recipes which could work.
One other thing I would like to mention. I knew several people, one a co-worker's husband, one an uncle by marriage, and an older married couple who lived a few houses down from me, who were all diabetics. All of them would buy "no sugar added" pies at the local grocery store bakeries, either Meijer or Kroger, and eat them as if it were OK. When I looked at the actual nutritional labels and ingredients on these pies, they were just as igh, or almost just as high, in total sugars and total carbs, as regular pies sweetened with sugar. While no refined sugar was added to these pies, apple juice concentrate and other sweeteners, such as honey, were used instead. All four of these people died early and rather unpleasant deaths as a consequence of their diabetes. All of them should have known better, IMO.
I think there definitely could be a good market for products truly made sugar free, so that they would have a relatively low glycemic index and would be truly ok in a proper portion size for diabetics and others who need to keep away from sugar.
grasswire (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-13-11 11:13 PM
THE PIE-AND-JAM FARMERETTE PRIMITIVE
Response to Reply #1
2. good observation
I fear that many people who need to restrict carbs/sugar don't read labels. I do obsessively because I know how I'm going to feel physically if I don't pay attention: crappy.
Thanks for the tip on Splenda. I'll start working on that. I need to have a couple of sugar-free pies in my repertoire. I'd like one of them to be a plain custard, and perhaps that won't be too hard to make happen.
housewolf (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-14-11 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Re Splenda, may I suggest that you do some research
That before you travel down that road, you might want to do some research on the potential health risks associated with its use. There hasn't been much done in the way of long-term and comprehensive testing done on it, but there appears to be some indications of problems that could be associated with it. Then you can make some informed decisions as to whether it's something you want to use or not.
hippywife (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-14-11 08:33 AM
MRS. ALFRED PACKER
Response to Reply #3
5. I second this comment.
From what I understand of Splenda, which admittedly is not that much, is that it is sugar that has had it's chemical make up altered at a molecular level.
Also, the powdered/granulated forms of most sweeteners are 95% sugar: dextrose, maltodextrin, sorbitol, etc. It's all manufactured sugar rather than cane sugar.
Many fruits are sweet on their own, then adding a sweetener that is mostly manufactured sugar is a recipe for disaster for diabetics, as Den pointed out.
I would experiment making an apple pie, or even fresh peach, with no sweetener to see what it tastes like and then how it can be minimally tweaked with as little sugar as possible to improve the taste without increasing the sugars by too much. I've never tried that, myself.
And truth be told, many diabetics CAN have sweets, they just need to keep them to small portions, and eat a balanced diet otherwise, low in carbs. Avoiding excess in anything is the key where diabetes is concerned.
You know, the above's one of the most-recent comments by Mrs. Alfred Packer.
Almost two weeks ago, that was.
franksolich is greatly concerned; it's highly irregular of Mrs. Alfred Packer.
One hopes hippyhubby Wild Bill isn't rotating her on a
rotissiere or something; remember, Wild Bill seemed a little put out, a little grouchy, after that egg got all bound up inside that chicken.
grasswire (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-14-11 11:55 AM
THE PIE-AND-JAM FARMERETTE PRIMITIVE
Response to Reply #3
6. yes, thanks for the caution
I would never use any artificial product without clearly stating what it is so the eater can make his/her decision about it. Personally, I hate the taste of sugar-substitute foods and would rather do without totally.
Phentex (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-14-11 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I am a witness to the cookie failure!...
It just didn't hold up when I used Splenda. They tasted fine but were very crumbly. I think a pie is a whole nother animal so it should be okay.
supernova (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-14-11 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. Couple more suggestions
I'm not diabetic but I eat low/managed carb anyway. That is to say, I try to get most of my carbs from veggies and some fruit, rather than grains and grain-based products.
Pies can be sugar free but often commercial products completely ignore the flour-based crust. I've used instead nut flours like pecan or hazel nut and it worked just fine. I use them like you would graham cracker crust. (Provided the client doesn't also have a nut allergy. ) I think it works just great for custard type pies. Don't know about juicy fruit pies. I think I'll try it this summer.
yellerpup (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-14-11 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. I made a huge mess trying to make sugar free cookies with artificial sweetener. Instead of cookies I got two ruined cookie sheets covered with foamy goo that tasted really nasty and could not be scraped off. It was so long ago, I don't remember what the brand name was but it put me off using artificial anything forever. I gave it a shot because my family is full of diabetics, but never again. I simply reduce the amount of sugar in a lot baked goods. For fruit pies I have reduced fruit nectar to concentrate the sweetness to very positive effect in peach and apple pies. Don't know if this is the kind of information you are looking for.
As for diabetics, I once had a guest (Thanksgiving) insist that I bake a special pie (from a sugar-free kit) for him because he couldn't eat sugar. When he arrived, he ate a 15 oz. can of nuts as an appetizer, loaded up on yams, cranberry sauce, hot rolls, and gravy at dinner and then ate the WHOLE (sugar free) pie. This parallels my experience with diabetics in my family. When they want to over eat or load up on sugar they do and then suffer the consequences even if they know it will kill them.
housewolf (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-14-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Kind of like heavy smokers, isn't it?
Not so much difference between the holds that substances can have on some individuals - nicotine and sugar, for example, as well as alcohol and some other substances that we have a love-hate relationship with. Many cases of "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". For some people, will poser just can't do it. Very complex physiologic/chemical/emotional/psychological condition. I don't think we have all the answers yet, but some brain researches have identified activity in certain areas of the brain that might be a key to understanding more.
What seems so simple to many of us - if you're diabetic or food-sensitive or obese, just don't eat it. The reality for an individual in the throes of such addictions (for wont of a better word), it's just not that simple. If we could figure out the keys to self-destructiveness, we might understand not only individuals but much of today's world much better!
We'd also finally unravel the mystery of why the primitives are the way they are.
yellerpup (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-14-11 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. It is so complicated.
You hit love-hate-emotional-chemical mystery right on target. The friend I mentioned (who wanted a sugar free pie) was also a heavily addicted smoker and ended up having a stroke shortly after the last time he stayed with us. The smoking combined with his diabetes was wreaking havoc on his life to the point where he would 'doze off' in the middle of a sentence, he would pass out after dinner then wake up craving a smoke. He'd light up and then nod off, snoring, with his cigarette slipping through his fingers.
I told him that he COULD NOT SMOKE after we went to bed and he said he wouldn't. The next day I woke up to find that he'd smoked about half a pack of cigarettes between bedtime and the next morning. That was it. He was never invited to stay over again after that because I didn't trust him not to burn our house down around us while we slept. He took it hard because he felt I was over reacting.
Then, he had the stroke, then he had a heart attack. Then he had to move to Florida because he couldn't afford to live in NYC on disability. He's in a VA hospital now, only 4 years older than I, weighing over 300 pounds and just waiting on the next episode to kill him.
GoCubsGo (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-14-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. There is a relatively new one out that looks to be decent for baking.
It is called "Ideal", and is safe for diabetics. It xylitol, which is a sugar alcohol, and is one of the substances used to sweeten chewing gum, toothpaste, and mouthwashes. They already use xylitol in other diabetic products, as well. "Ideal" is just a powdered form, which also has 1% Splenda. It also comes in a brown sugar version, and a powdered sugar version, neither of which I have tried. I have tried the regular, granulated version, and I really like it, although I have not tried to bake with it. It doesn't have the aftertaste that other sweeteners have. If you Google "Ideal sweetener" you can get the web page. And, Wikipedia has an interesting write-up on xylitol.
yellerpup (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-14-11 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. grasswire was looking for information like this...
She's starting a pie shop/performance space for musicians and is researching diabetic sweeteners. I am committed to using natural ingredients and I do everything from scratch. This referral could come in handy for her.
Denninmi (693 posts) Mon Mar-14-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I won't allow xylitol in my house.
It's extremely toxic to dogs, and generally fatal with a sufficient dose, which is equivalent to the amount found in one stick of sugar free gum per about 10 lbs of dog.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to it, I just don't want it in my house. As long as the product is labeled, it's fine, IMO. But, if you were to sell this product, I'd really suggest putting a warning label on there about not letting pets near it. Better safe than sorry.
WhiteTara (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-21-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. also makes you poop like a goose.
NMDemDist2 (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-14-11 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. can you use honey or agave syrup?
The empressof all (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-14-11 06:17 PM
THE IMPERIOUS PRIMITIVE, WHO DOESN'T LIKE US
Response to Reply #10
13. I've been using Agave quite a bit
It's still high in calories but low glycemic so healthier than white sugar IMO. I've used it for muffins and sweet breads so far but I have seen a pecan pie recipe floating around the web that looked good.
