I'm sorry, but I think the left is going overboard with the blame

[notaDUmmie]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x170271

I'm sorry, but I think the left is going overboard with the blame
 Edited on Mon Jan-10-11 11:34 PM by DaveofCali
I think it is fair to say that this is a wakeup call about the potential (and already realized) consequences of the Right Wing Vitriol and other hate speech on Right Wing Media. Yes, this needs to be known.

However, I think the left wing is going too far in trying to directly blame the right wingers for this particular incident, especially given that there's no real evidence to say (yet) that this guy was pushed overboard by right wing media.

Take into consideration:

- Jared Loughner had a personal beef with Gabrielle Giffords, his grudge against her was about 4 years in the making starting when she didn't answer a question that he asked her well.
- Jared Loughner was antigovernment, period. The political books he cites really have only "anti-government" being the theme, you can't really pinpoint any significant political tilt, plus he didn't really read any modern right wing media inspired books.
- Gabrielle Giffords was the closest he could get to contact with the Federal Government (being his closest channel to the government.)
- There's no clear evidence that he became a hate filled potential killer because of Right Wing Media. He seemed to have been following extreme fringe ideas (like "conscience dreaming" and "mind control using grammar" and that "the world is an illusion"), stuff that really has nothing to do with the left and the right.
- While his writings did lineup with some far right wing conspiracies, there's still no clear evidence yet that he was a listener to right wing radio or that he was incited by anybody on the Right Wing to use violence.

Going and accusing the right wing of being responsible for this without any clear evidence IMO is jumping the gun, makes Right Wingers look like victims, and is detrimental IMO rather than limiting the message to being a "wakeup call". Hearing Karel and Mike Malloy, they really went overboard tonight IMO.
 

rucky  (1000+ posts)        Mon Jan-10-11 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree, but I don't give a shit.
 Edited on Mon Jan-10-11 11:40 PM by rucky
It's good to see us fight back & not take this shit anymore. We've been playing fair against dangerous for way too long.
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

stegosaurus1 (6 posts)     Mon Jan-10-11 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. typical...
 ...doctrinaire libtard.

"My argument's full of crap, but it's my crap!"



 

I'm just dying tonight!

[Freeper]

rucky  (1000+ posts)        Mon Jan-10-11 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree, but I don't give a shit.
 Edited on Mon Jan-10-11 11:40 PM by rucky
It's good to see us fight back & not take this shit anymore. We've been playing fair against dangerous for way too long.
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Typical of the DUmmies. The shit they spew is not true, they know it to be false, yet they use it anyway.
Just like Dan "fake but accurate" Rather and the shit they pulled with the fake comments from Rush where they said, "he may not have said it, but it's how he really feels".

[AllosaursRus]

Going and accusing the right wing of being responsible for this without any clear evidence IMO is jumping the gun, makes Right Wingers look like victims, and is detrimental IMO rather than limiting the message to being a "wakeup call". Hearing Karel and Mike Malloy, they really went overboard tonight IMO.

One thing we ain't, asshat, is victims! I think y'all got that one covered!

[dandi]

rucky  (1000+ posts)        Mon Jan-10-11 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree, but I don't give a shit.
It's good to see us fight back & not take this shit anymore. We've been playing fair against dangerous for way too long.

Oh yeah, right, like you've haven't been making up bullshit out of whole cloth before now. From the time Bush entered office until he walked out and beyond, every week it's been some new slanderous crap. Handful after handful of it slung against the wall to see what would stick. Only none of it ever did. Tough break for you, morons.

This Arizona shooting is just the latest debacle in a long line of the above described shit-slinging. You stood on the bodies of dead 9/11 victims, then you stood on the bodies of dead soldiers, then you stood on the bodies of dead Katrina victims, now you're standing on the dead bodies resulting from a madman's rampage.

You're vile, you're sick, you're amoral, you're crazy, you're witless, dickless, bloodless, worthless freaks and no one outside your own little cesspool of other witless, dickless, bloodless, worthless freaks can stand you. You serve no purpose in humanity. You're speedbumps on the highway to universal freedom and self-actualization. If dogshit wore shoes, you're what it would scrape off the bottom of them.

And I say this purely out of love.

[JakeStyle]

Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Mon Jan-10-11 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Rec'd. I agree.
   
I'd also like to say that the emphasis so far distracts from the real problem of the mentally ill being able to easily purchase guns. What I see so far is an effort to m

dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Mon Jan-10-11 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think more and more DUers are coming to this conclusion.
   
Some are consumed by the need to fight though. I think this kind of defines who is where.

Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Mon Jan-10-11 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Nothing wrong with framing it our way but nobody's framing anything very intelligently
   
Edited on Mon Jan-10-11 11:54 PM by Catherina
So far it seems like just throw any old thing out there and hope it sticks.

That's just making us look too angry to think rationally. One minute he was the biggest antisemite on the planet with people personally chiming in, the next he was a hard-core rightwinger, and now a teabagger. The minute mental illness is pointed out, certain people refuse to hear it right now, as if that will weaken a political case.

I realize that's not a popular position right now but when everyone is running around shrieking, my first reaction is to advocate for calm, reason and cold-blooded calculation. Right now, to me at least, it just looks like a confused feeding frenzy.

Looks like the light is starting to dawn on a few idiots over there.

[Evil_Conservative]

Oh yeah, right, like you've haven't been making up bullshit out of whole cloth before now. From the time Bush entered office until he walked out and beyond, every week it's been some new slanderous crap. Handful after handful of it slung against the wall to see what would stick. Only none of it ever did. Tough break for you, morons.

This Arizona shooting is just the latest debacle in a long line of the above described shit-slinging. You stood on the bodies of dead 9/11 victims, then you stood on the bodies of dead soldiers, then you stood on the bodies of dead Katrina victims, now you're standing on the dead bodies resulting from a madman's rampage.

You're vile, you're sick, you're amoral, you're crazy, you're witless, dickless, bloodless, worthless freaks and no one outside your own little cesspool of other witless, dickless, bloodless, worthless freaks can stand you. You serve no purpose in humanity. You're speedbumps on the highway to universal freedom and self-actualization. If dogshit wore shoes, you're what it would scrape off the bottom of them.

And I say this purely out of love.

H5

[BlueStateSaint]

You're vile, you're sick, you're amoral, you're crazy, you're witless, dickless, bloodless, worthless freaks and no one outside your own little cesspool of other witless, dickless, bloodless, worthless freaks can stand you. You serve no purpose in humanity. You're speedbumps on the highway to universal freedom and self-actualization. If dogshit wore shoes, you're what it would scrape off the bottom of them.

And I say this purely out of love.

Boy, I would not want to see you make a diatribe in hate, sir!

H5!

[Ballygrl]

Free Speech and Political Discourse=Right Wing Vitriol?

[Freeper]

Free Speech and Political Discourse=Right Wing Vitriol?

Circa 2000 to 2008 dissent is the highest form of patriotism. Starting in Jan of 2009 all of a sudden dissent was high treason. Hell before 2009 images and stories about assassinating the president was just art. Now just calling out the president when he lies is terrorism.

Speaking of lies guess what DUmmies Obama lied again. When he said our paychecks will be bigger in Jan 2011. I just saw my pay stub for this coming friday and it's slightly smaller.
 

[Wineslob]

Right Wing Vitriol and other hate speech on Right Wing Media. Yes, this needs to be known.

Lurking DUmmies, links...please.

[BlueStateSaint]

Lurking DUmmies, links...please.

All they need are feeeeeeeelings!  They feeeeel that it's true, so in their eyes, it is true to everyone else!

[littlelamb]

That DUmmy needs a reality check

[Evil_Conservative]

Lurking DUmmies, links...please.

They don't need links.  Duh.

[Wineslob]

Ya, I'm asking for too much. 

[Freeper]

Lurking DUmmies, links...please.

They don't need any proof because they know even if we don't say it we want to kill democrats by the truckload. Just like when the quotes from rush were proven to be fake they said "well he feels that way anyway, even if he didn't say it".

To you lurking DUmmies I did not say we want to kill dems by the truckload that sentence was what you guys think we feel.

[delilahmused]

If the congresswoman was a republican they'd be screaming that the shooter was a victim of the right because they didn't want single payer that guaranteed this warped individual mental health resources.

Cindie