ObamaCare repeal

[DumbAss Tanker]

One of the pop-up ads got me to thinking.  A lot of candidates and activists in the recent election were talking about repeal of Obamacare, which we all know could not make it through the Senate or past Obama in any realistic appraisal of the current balance of power (Not that I'm opposed to a symbolic gesture, as long as it isn't mistaken for real action). 

But, so many big employers and the unions themselves have requested and/or engineered exemptions from it, that it looks to me like it might not be repealed but instead suffer the death of a thousand cuts at the hands of Congress, to exempt various favored constituencies.  Basically there seems to be a real chance of it becoming a typical legislative junkyard and minefield for the unwary, bogging small players down in its intricate but pointless web of regulations, chock full of fines and penalties, but in no way actually achieving its original aim, or just going away either.

What do you all think?

[Eupher]

You mean ObamaCare actually becoming like our tax code? Bloated, swollen, complex, and out of control, yet has spawned countless jobs for tax attorneys, H&R Block, and the Mom & Pop tax preparers we all know and love?

The same tax code that'll never die or undergo significant change?

Yeah, I can see that happening.

So, in essence, the "death by 1,000 cuts" really isn't a death - it morphs into the 800 lb. gorilla that's in the room but nobody acknowledges.

The little players go away because they're scared and can't handle the complexity and the big players do more lobbying.

Meanwhile, Congress and the administration hold all the cards. And the power.

And the Obama quest to wrest power away from the people continues.

[JohnnyReb]

You mean ObamaCare actually becoming like our tax code? Bloated, swollen, complex, and out of control, yet has spawned countless jobs for tax attorneys, H&R Block, and the Mom & Pop tax preparers we all know and love?

The same tax code that'll never die or undergo significant change?

Yeah, I can see that happening.

So, in essence, the "death by 1,000 cuts" really isn't a death - it morphs into the 800 lb. gorilla that's in the room but nobody acknowledges.

The little players go away because they're scared and can't handle the complexity and the big players do more lobbying.

Meanwhile, Congress and the administration hold all the cards. And the power.

And the Obama quest to wrest power away from the people continues.

Yes, some damage has already been done and more will be done in the next 2 years....and then it's to late, the assholes will have their foot in the door and it won't ever be closed again.

[TypeTapper]

I wonder if Obama could be persuaded to follow some limited repeal of ObamaCare. Probably not, but Clinton signed welfare reform after 2 vetoes.

[DumbAss Tanker]

You mean ObamaCare actually becoming like our tax code? Bloated, swollen, complex, and out of control, yet has spawned countless jobs for tax attorneys, H&R Block, and the Mom & Pop tax preparers we all know and love?

The same tax code that'll never die or undergo significant change?

Yeah, I can see that happening.

Sort of, except the tax code actually funds the Government, if in a Rube Goldberg kind of way (It changes all the time, btw, but none of them fundamentally changing its one basic feature, the 'Progressive' *cough* structure).  I see Obamacare becoming more like the NFA, a web of open-to-interpretation regulations and State-Federal mishmash overseen by an autocratic and rather arbitrary agency that doesn't actually accomplish anything tangible at all.

[Eupher]

I wonder if Obama could be persuaded to follow some limited repeal of ObamaCare. Probably not, but Clinton signed welfare reform after 2 vetoes.

the Clenis was a much better politician than Lord Zero ever hopes to be, so it's highly unlikely that LZ would even recognize his dilemma through all the narcissism.

[cavegal]

One of the pop-up ads got me to thinking.  A lot of candidates and activists in the recent election were talking about repeal of Obamacare, which we all know could not make it through the Senate or past Obama in any realistic appraisal of the current balance of power (Not that I'm opposed to a symbolic gesture, as long as it isn't mistaken for real action). 

But, so many big employers and the unions themselves have requested and/or engineered exemptions from it, that it looks to me like it might not be repealed but instead suffer the death of a thousand cuts at the hands of Congress, to exempt various favored constituencies.  Basically there seems to be a real chance of it becoming a typical legislative junkyard and minefield for the unwary, bogging small players down in its intricate but pointless web of regulations, chock full of fines and penalties, but in no way actually achieving its original aim, or just going away either.

What do you all think?

Unintended consequences always happens to the libs ideas. I fear you may be correct. I also fear it is going to put the elderly in early graves.

[TVDOC]

the Clenis was a much better politician than Lord Zero ever hopes to be, so it's highly unlikely that LZ would even recognize his dilemma through all the narcissism.

Yeah.....and I seem to remember that his advisors told him that if he didn't sign it (welfare reform), that he would not be reelected in '95......

Obama, as you mentioned, doesn't seem to care about the political reality of his situation.

doc

[5412]

One of the pop-up ads got me to thinking.  A lot of candidates and activists in the recent election were talking about repeal of Obamacare, which we all know could not make it through the Senate or past Obama in any realistic appraisal of the current balance of power (Not that I'm opposed to a symbolic gesture, as long as it isn't mistaken for real action).  

But, so many big employers and the unions themselves have requested and/or engineered exemptions from it, that it looks to me like it might not be repealed but instead suffer the death of a thousand cuts at the hands of Congress, to exempt various favored constituencies.  Basically there seems to be a real chance of it becoming a typical legislative junkyard and minefield for the unwary, bogging small players down in its intricate but pointless web of regulations, chock full of fines and penalties, but in no way actually achieving its original aim, or just going away either.

What do you all think?

Hi,

I wish it were all that simple but I see some issues.  First of all, it would take many more than 1000 cuts to get rid of all the new government employees, the death panels and the preferential treatment in the bill.  There have been many articles of late that the US does not make anything anymore, and the loss of factories and manufacturing jobs has been accelerated since 2000.  Almost like Ross Perot said, a giant sucking sound.....  In any event, it is the small business that is now the backbone of America and they are the ones who will suffer.  They would not be big enough to get special treatment, and it would make it even harder for them to compete against the giant competitors in the retail sector that seem to be getting the exemptions.

Repeal the damn thing, death panels and all.  Any attempt to modify and/or fix the current bill will end up in an even bigger mess because the politicians would be unable to think clearly and would be more interested in protecting their big campaign donors.

regards,
5412

[DumbAss Tanker]

Hi,

I wish it were all that simple but I see some issues.  First of all, it would take many more than 1000 cuts to get rid of all the new government employees, the death panels and the preferential treatment in the bill...  

I think you mistook my meaning, my friend, I did not mean that it would be wiped out by all the fiddling, weaseling, and backscratching.  No, I meant that as CaveGal took it - due to the Law of Unintended Consequences, the thing will mutate out of all original intent, ultimately both failing to deliver the benefit its proponents wanted, and also delivering all the bureaucratic pain and waste its opponents foresaw.

The huge swaths of exemptions and exceptions granted to special interests so far are the foreshadowing of this outcome. 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

The huge swaths of exemptions and exceptions granted to special interests so far are the foreshadowing of this outcome. 

Supposedly the mandate was a key feature based on the idea that unless everyone pays into the pool the pool will be too small to cover those who cannot pay their own way.

Yet, exemptions chip away at exactly that very premise.

I find this ironic since opponents of flat tax rates say that it is unfair to the poor because 12% of a poor man's budget is more than 12% of a rich man's budget.

Yet, the rich man can hire lobbyists for a lot less than 12% to buy himself innumerable shelters, exemptions, deductions--and in some cases--subsidies.

[true_blood]

Hi,
Repeal the damn thing, death panels and all.  Any attempt to modify and/or fix the current bill will end up in an even bigger mess because the politicians would be unable to think clearly and would be more interested in protecting their big campaign donors.
regards,
5412

BINGO! Kill the bill completely.

[5412]

I think you mistook my meaning, my friend, I did not mean that it would be wiped out by all the fiddling, weaseling, and backscratching.  No, I meant that as CaveGal took it - due to the Law of Unintended Consequences, the thing will mutate out of all original intent, ultimately both failing to deliver the benefit its proponents wanted, and also delivering all the bureaucratic pain and waste its opponents foresaw.

The huge swaths of exemptions and exceptions granted to special interests so far are the foreshadowing of this outcome. 

Hi,

Indeed I did misunderstand.  The bill is such a terrible piece of legislation however, would much prefer to nuke it altogether.

Thanks for further explaining what you meant.  Indeed, under the conditions you outlined it would spell clusterf*** for all the world to see.

thanks,
5412