Author Topic: did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume to  (Read 4720 times)

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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume to
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2010, 01:56:03 PM »
Count me in on one that just passes over vestibule's posts!

Not willing to waste that portion of my life on earth, doncha know!
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Offline BattleHymn

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Re: did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume to
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2010, 02:43:58 PM »
Here DUmmies, let me save you a lot of time and headaches with extra reading:

"Did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume"

Done. 

Offline PatriotGame

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Re: did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume to
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2010, 03:31:51 PM »
Cool out Sparky, when the military started doing the piss test in the early 80's there were a few problems here.


I do know of one Ship stationed in Norfork that discharged 3 sailors for a positive reading.

These kids did not drink coffee or tea, no booze, smoke cigarettes or even eat chocolate, they were MORMON.

I do not know how things work today in the military, but I do know that a false positive back then caused the family's of Mormon family's to storm the powers that be.

Now about military testing of blood.  In Portsmouth VA. I was waiting in a room that had a long glass window behind that was the lab that worked on blood samples.

As I waited for a tech to take my blood, I watched the people behind the glass test and do whatever to blood samples.

I saw with my very own eyes a male pick up a vile of blood and drop it on the floor. the tubes were glass at that time and broke.  The Tech got all out of shape and stormed out of the room opening the door and I heard him say that the sample was inclusive and needed to be taken again.

Don't mess with me about Military medicine Sparky, I was born in a Navy Hospital and at one time or another spent 40 years in Navy, Airforce, and Army hospitals .   

Sparky I know how Com suer works, find a pharmacists Mate with 2 weeks to go for separations and work out a deal.

Hubby traded $50.00 bucks to a shipyard worker to get the diving alarm off a boat due to go into moth balls.---- The ships clock off the pig boat he was qualified on went to some Captain willing to pay $1,500 for it.

You get a Captain whose son flunks a piss test--- really the test will come back inconclusive and no one bothers to retest him.

I was born into a Navy family, raised in a Navy family and raised 4 kids in in a Navy family, now just how many years did you spend in the Navy.? 

I have seen 40 years of changes in the military, and you experienced 6-8 years.

When I was a kid Navy housing was segregated, the Philippine sailors did the laundry and shined the officers shoes.

I watched as Rickover became against all odds the father of the nuclear Sub Navy.

Sparky you were years away from birth when I was living the life of a dependent and even young myself absorbing the life.

So what the ****, years before you were born I was a little girl waiting for an ASR to come in and have my Daddy in a decompression tank.

So you can stick a pickle up your ass and eat liver and onions.
B-HuuuuuulllllShit!

False positives do NOT exist. Never have! I spent 1987 - 2001 submitting to random fitness for duty testing, dated a lady that had administered those tests for ten years and between the both of us, never encountered a false positive. Additionally, other than possibly the military, if a person is a current employee of a company and tests positive, I have yet to see a company that did not have EAP (Employee Assistance Program) that would give the employee discipline only such as a letter in their file on first offense provided they take advantage of help via drug & alcohol counseling. Yes, new employee screenings throwing a positive are discharged and that will always happen in the first week. The tests are much more accurate and precise than even ten years ago. All that Goldenseal shit never worked and my former squeeze told me that as far back as in the early 90's, even if dope did not show up but if herb shit like Goldenseal did, the employee was rejected. I have witnessed a half-dozen people throw a positive for dope over the past 20 years and they were always notified no more than three days after their sample was taken. They always bitched up a storm over their 'innocence' and tested again and always came up positive again.
The labs conducting the tests know they are dealing with a person's career and could be sued out of existence for a mistake. The chain of command of the sample and associated documentation is undeniable.
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Offline Celtic Rose

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Re: did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume to
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2010, 04:34:22 PM »
I have heard that that tests for opiates can give a false positive if you eat a bunch of poppy seeds (mythbusters did an episode on it and confirmed it).  Don't know if that was with lower level testing equipment or what though. 

Offline Randy

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Re: did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume to
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2010, 04:50:01 PM »
Count me in on one that just passes over vestibule's posts!

Not willing to waste that portion of my life on earth, doncha know!

Count me in too. I'm one of the unfortunate ignorers.

Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume to
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2010, 05:50:02 PM »
Vesta...dearest...go **** yourself, toots.

You don't know SHIT.  You ramble, you blather, you babble.  Most people's eyes glaze over when they see your name at the head of a post, because nobody is willing to dig through the five metric ****tons of dogshit to find the one microgram of wisdom you MIGHT have buried in there somewhere.

Show me ONE ****ING PERSON--ANYWHERE IN THE MILITARY SINCE 1981--WHO CAN PROVE, YES, PROVE THEY GOT FALSE POPPED.  I was on AD in 1984, and about the only thing that MIGHT set off a urinalysis is poppy seeds.  That's IT.

Marijuana?  What they're testing for can only be detected if it is SMOKED BY THE PERSON.  None of that "contact high" bullshit, none of that, "I ate a brownie and I didn't know what was in it" bullshit.  THC is fat-soluble, meaning it stays in the system for 30-45 days.

Cocaine?  Opiates?  LSD?  Meth?  In the urine for up to 96 hours.

When a urinalysis is given, not all samples are tested.  Only about 1-2 per dozen.  If a sample comes above a given threshold for a substance, it's tested again.  If not, it's tossed.  If it's tested again (at a higher threshold) and doesn't come hot, it's tossed.  If it does, it's given a THIRD test, with a still HIGHER threshold.  ONLY if that third test comes up positive does that constitute a positive test.  THREE tests, and ALL must be positive with ever-increasing levels of what constitutes a positive test.

Want to know how I know all this?  It's because my Chief was the Command Urinalysis Coordinator on my first boat.  I read through his materials.  I know what the standards are. 

At the time (1988), any CPO or Officer who pissed hot was given the boot--admin separation, no second chances.  By the time I left sea duty in 1996, anyone on active duty who pissed hot was booted.  When I was on recruiting duty, it was done as part of the DEP-in process, and if they pissed hot, they were dropped, had to wait at least 30 days to reprocess, and almost never kept their original program.

And don't give me any of your bullshit about how khakis were never busted.  I saw it--an officer in San Diego for speed.  I saw a whole SHITLOAD of officers and chiefs shitcanned for DUI or other alcohol related offenses.  My Admiral when I was on recruiting duty was forced to retire due to sexual misconduct, so no, dearie, officers CAN stick their dicks in the fan.  The CO of USS Chicago just got relieved for being drunk.  Not DUI.  Not drugs, just getting shitty with a bunch of middies at Cornell.

So, dear Vesta--I don't give a rat **** WHAT you "THINK" you know.  What you THINK you know ain't one-tenth of what you DO know.  Like the boys coming back off 'Pac would said, "I can't wait to **** the wife's brains out tonight!!!"

In your case, I'd say mission accomplished.  Now go eat a bag of fat dicks.  Pretty please.

Not to mention, such a sample can be confirmed using different equipment.  When I worked in the lab testing water samples for organic contaminants, when we had a sample come up hot, we were required, by law, to have it on at least two different detectors.  Sure, the byproducts of chlorination sure don't sound anywhere near as important as cocaine, but the implications of someone over-chlorinating drinking water build up over time, and require someone to change their procedures (and it costs them money to do that).  Fuel spills into drinking water?  You betcha we had two different detectors (on two different gas chromatographs) confirming that stuff.  Dry cleaning solvents showing up in drinking water (I can speak from direct experience on all of these, BTW)?  Same there.

False positives are rigorously rechecked.  They tend to lose the "false" adjective, 100% of the time.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume to
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2010, 06:26:28 PM »
I have heard that that tests for opiates can give a false positive if you eat a bunch of poppy seeds (mythbusters did an episode on it and confirmed it).  Don't know if that was with lower level testing equipment or what though. 

The level of poppy seeds which would be required for that would be like you or I eating a package of Panera Bread bagels with double helping of poppy seeds for a week.

IOW, yes, but the level is so high...so to speak.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline docstew

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Re: did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume to
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2010, 06:48:32 PM »
I have heard of certain people testing for golden seal not sure if it is urban legend or not though.  :-)


I can state with certainty that military urinalysis can test for adulterants.  If someone is taking cough syrup for a high, the test can not only tell what they've taken, but even the brand.  Same with bleach (some Soldiers think they can beat the test by getting bleach on their hands and peeing into the cup over their fingers), it'll tell you the brand of that too.  The GCMS that they use can determine a level as low as 15 nanograms per milliliter, so the test would show THC and golden seal. 
Military urinalysis protocols are that they test EVERY sample at least once, if a sample is negative they toss it.  Any positives get screened again, a negative here is a negative for the sample, toss it.  After those two positive screening results, they use GCMS to determine level.

Oh, and vesta?  Next time you want to correct someone who wore the uniform about something dealing with the military, just take a deep breath and GFY.

Offline NHSparky

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Re: did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume to
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2010, 07:48:25 PM »
I can state with certainty that military urinalysis can test for adulterants.  If someone is taking cough syrup for a high, the test can not only tell what they've taken, but even the brand.  Same with bleach (some Soldiers think they can beat the test by getting bleach on their hands and peeing into the cup over their fingers), it'll tell you the brand of that too.  The GCMS that they use can determine a level as low as 15 nanograms per milliliter, so the test would show THC and golden seal. 
Military urinalysis protocols are that they test EVERY sample at least once, if a sample is negative they toss it.  Any positives get screened again, a negative here is a negative for the sample, toss it.  After those two positive screening results, they use GCMS to determine level.

Oh, and vesta?  Next time you want to correct someone who wore the uniform about something dealing with the military, just take a deep breath and GFY.

Thanks, doc.  While some of my information was outdated (not all samples "back in the day" were tested due to expense), the basics of multiple "hits" to obtain a positive result I knew was and is dead on.  As far as the kids I used to speak to in HS, while so many of them would swear up and down that Golden Seal and similar products would make you piss clean, I and anyone else with an ASVAB above, say, 8 would know is that all those products do is separate you from your money and raise a huge flag to the testing labs.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume to
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2010, 09:27:02 PM »
Here is the forensic side of it for those interested:  Back in the 90s the lab at Fort Meade found out there was a period where they could not be sure they had good chain of custody or results on tests for a certain time period.  The military dealt with it by throwing out all the tests and throwing out any court-martial results that depended SOLELY on forensic test results, which turned out to be not nearly as many cases as everyone feared.

Poppy seeds, yes, possible, same with some ethnic concoctions containing small amounts of coca materials that can be obtained from bodegas in Hispanic communities.  Thing is, the nanogram levels of the people who come up with this crap are usually so stratospheric that the story is completely implausible.  The legendary contact high actually is not as far-fetched as the lab expert witnesses will say, because (1) they don't have good controlled testing on it and (2) their official opinion was set in stone and stayed the same even when the detection threshold went down fivefold, i.e. what was a reasonable but unverified expert opinion at 75 ng/ml was not necessarily valid at 15 or lower ng/ml.

The samples that come up hot really are hot, though; if it tests hot chemically, the sample is test in a GC/Mass Spec to confirm the metabolite is really there before it's reported out as a positive.  If it doesn't get a clear positive in the GC/MS it isn't reported out of the lab as a positive.  I say metabolites because for each drug they test for metabolites (Not actually the drugs themselves) that are ONLY formed by that specific drug being metabolized in the body, though as mentioned some precursors from the same biological source as the drugs can produce very low levels of the metabolytes.

Also you can eat green or dried marijuana all day and you won't metabolize THC from it, it has to be heated to a critical temp for that (Hashish, however, is a whole 'nother story).  It actually is possible to get the THC from the hash brownies, but you would know what was going on if that happened and you'd best be taking advantage of that open door policy to spill your guts or the consequences are all on you.

Most of the metabolites drop below the detection threshold within about 72 hours at 'normal' dosage levels, some even faster.  THC, though, remains in the fatty tissues and for a heavy or regular user it can continue to produce a (True) positive for up to 30 days after the last toke.

I've seen separation boards occasionally give the benefit of the doubt to cases involving some very unusual facts, which are too one-off to go into here.  There have also been documented cases of people going to bizarre lengths to beat the tests, including one nurse who catheterized herself to fill her bladder with clean urine before a test (She blabbed and was ratted out, then court-martialed).

I've seen a lot of courts and boards on it, but I've NEVER seen a case where I honestly believed somebody took a fall on a false positive.  I'm not saying it's absolutely impossible, but then neither is hitting the PowerBall three weeks in a row.     
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Offline Chris_

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Re: did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume to
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2010, 11:38:32 PM »

One has to have a drug test to get signed on to a temp agency.    BUT oh the ways that can be by passed.

What I have found out about some of these temp agency's is most interesting.

These agency's are hungry for workers, they do a piss test in house with results within minutes.  The tests I am told are much like the old diabetes tests, pee in a cup dip in a colored strip and wait for the reading to come out in 2 minutes
As long as the client is reasonably clean, and not spaced out, they get a pass.

To expect those to get government help be it unemployment or wellfair due to a drug test is to bring out the people that for a few bucks that will alter results.

Then I was in a Nationally known health store and there were 3 teens talking to the sales clerk.  From what I got from the conversation these kids were to take a piss test 3 days from now and wanted to be CLEAN.

The cost to buy some herbs and some kind of orange drink came to $150.00 each.

Anyone out there had to take a piss test that your life style depended on ??  The night mare of a false positive if awful. 


I'm currently with a well known temp agency and I did not have to get a drug test.  You shouldn't group all temp agencies into one big pile.  It's not that the place is shady, they just do not drug test at that location.  Or... the job I work for did not require it.
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Offline crockspot

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Re: did you ever think you'd have to submit a resume to
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2010, 11:45:35 PM »
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Recursion  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sat Jul-31-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. For cleaning a parking lot?
   
What possible help is it to the company to know your work history and drug habits if they just want you to clean a parking lot?

Oh, I don't know... Maybe they don't want to hire a drug addict who is prone to... I don't know... breaking into cars?  :whatever: