Author Topic: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100  (Read 9800 times)

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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2010, 12:51:48 PM »
No one should have the power to steal someone's property, but also hard to feel sorry for her if she had ample warning and ignored it. catch-22.

A single letter is ample warning?

I don't think so.

Offline Doc

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2010, 02:01:34 PM »
No offense to you older folks, but in MY experience, the absolute WORST people in the HOA I ran were the 60+ crowd. This was a sub-community of the main HOA and were comprised of townhome owners. They ultimately voted themselves a "55+" community without going through the main  HOA. Since I was leaving, I didn't bother to fight them. IMO, since they belonged to the main HOA, "Pebble Creek Addition HOA", they broke the rules (by-laws of the HOA)  by not obtaining permission from the main HOA to do what they did.

I will say this; I would live in another HOA run community, however, I would take a closer look at how the HOA was run. THAT would be the deciding factor.

Well....I'll overlook the over 60 comment for the moment, but the problem that I have with the HOA that we had are two-fold:

1. The officers and board were the same
clique" that had been running it for fifteen years.

2.  They refused to unilaterlally enforce the rules......when someone wanted to do something that is a violation of the rules, either they would threaten to sue (and the HOA caves), or, if the offender is a single female (which we have quite a few of), a bit of "feminine charm" usually will result in a waiver......

It got so bad, after my neighbor built a fence that was WAY outside the guidelines (by spending a few nights with the HOA president) that I had our attorneys file a suit setting the "Covenants and Restrictions" completely aside, due to the fact that there had been approved over fifteen "exceptions" by the board in the past five years......therefore they were essentially legally worthless, and the judge agreed......he tossed out the officers, the board, the restrictions, and the bylaws, and told them that they had to start from scratch, and whatever they came up with had to have the written approval of 90% of the homeowners

This set off a shitstorm that took over a year to resolve, and the Bylaws and Covenants completely rewritten, and voted upon, and a lot of compromise was involved......strangely, for that year that we had NO Covenants and Restrictions, the neighborhood didn't go to hell in a handbasket.  In short, we did just fine without an HOA......

doc

Offline vesta111

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2010, 03:49:37 PM »
Well....I'll overlook the over 60 comment for the moment, but the problem that I have with the HOA that we had are two-fold:

1. The officers and board were the same
clique" that had been running it for fifteen years.

2.  They refused to unilaterlally enforce the rules......when someone wanted to do something that is a violation of the rules, either they would threaten to sue (and the HOA caves), or, if the offender is a single female (which we have quite a few of), a bit of "feminine charm" usually will result in a waiver......

It got so bad, after my neighbor built a fence that was WAY outside the guidelines (by spending a few nights with the HOA president) that I had our attorneys file a suit setting the "Covenants and Restrictions" completely aside, due to the fact that there had been approved over fifteen "exceptions" by the board in the past five years......therefore they were essentially legally worthless, and the judge agreed......he tossed out the officers, the board, the restrictions, and the bylaws, and told them that they had to start from scratch, and whatever they came up with had to have the written approval of 90% of the homeowners

This set off a shitstorm that took over a year to resolve, and the Bylaws and Covenants completely rewritten, and voted upon, and a lot of compromise was involved......strangely, for that year that we had NO Covenants and Restrictions, the neighborhood didn't go to hell in a handbasket.  In short, we did just fine without an HOA......

doc

My neighbors here tried a few years ago to start a HOA to get the land owner to upgrade the roads and street lighting.  Heck since I will not go near a HOA meeting I had to get the news of the meetings from friends who did go and it became a circus.

Soon as rumors started going around about the residences interest in starting a HOA the land owner nosed about, found out who was behind the plan and sent them some trumpted up Eviction notice. When the neighbors wouldn't back down he insisted on attending every meeting with his lawyer.  The members could not complain or even discuss anything amongst themselves without fear of a big legal bill to fight an unfair eviction. 

Under those circumstances the HOA lasted about 3 meeting and disbanded.

I think I agree with Thor, Doc about the over 60 year old crowd. They get board with retirement and have nothing to do but try to put some empowerment back into their lives. Most are not mean and cranky but those that are ,are so frustrated when no one will follow their advice and live as they think they should. 

Offline Doc

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2010, 03:55:51 PM »
My neighbors here tried a few years ago to start a HOA to get the land owner to upgrade the roads and street lighting.  Heck since I will not go near a HOA meeting I had to get the news of the meetings from friends who did go and it became a circus.

Soon as rumors started going around about the residences interest in starting a HOA the land owner nosed about, found out who was behind the plan and sent them some trumpted up Eviction notice. When the neighbors wouldn't back down he insisted on attending every meeting with his lawyer.  The members could not complain or even discuss anything amongst themselves without fear of a big legal bill to fight an unfair eviction. 

Under those circumstances the HOA lasted about 3 meeting and disbanded.

I think I agree with Thor, Doc about the over 60 year old crowd. They get board with retirement and have nothing to do but try to put some empowerment back into their lives. Most are not mean and cranky but those that are ,are so frustrated when no one will follow their advice and live as they think they should. 

I seem to remember a few posts back you stated that you and your neighbors lived on leased land........that makes a world of difference legally in the latitude that a homeowner (who only owns the leasehold improvements) has.

Different situation entiirely than those of us who actually OWN both the house and the land it sits on.

doc

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2010, 04:31:13 PM »
My neighbors here tried a few years ago to start a HOA to get the land owner to upgrade the roads and street lighting.  Heck since I will not go near a HOA meeting I had to get the news of the meetings from friends who did go and it became a circus.

whoa... wait a second.

Renters tried to start an HOA?

Offline Thor

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2010, 05:07:48 PM »
Well....I'll overlook the over 60 comment for the moment, but the problem that I have with the HOA that we had are two-fold:

1. The officers and board were the same
clique" that had been running it for fifteen years.


2.  They refused to unilaterlally enforce the rules......when someone wanted to do something that is a violation of the rules, either they would threaten to sue (and the HOA caves), or, if the offender is a single female (which we have quite a few of), a bit of "feminine charm" usually will result in a waiver......

It got so bad, after my neighbor built a fence that was WAY outside the guidelines (by spending a few nights with the HOA president) that I had our attorneys file a suit setting the "Covenants and Restrictions" completely aside, due to the fact that there had been approved over fifteen "exceptions" by the board in the past five years......therefore they were essentially legally worthless, and the judge agreed......he tossed out the officers, the board, the restrictions, and the bylaws, and told them that they had to start from scratch, and whatever they came up with had to have the written approval of 90% of the homeowners

This set off a shitstorm that took over a year to resolve, and the Bylaws and Covenants completely rewritten, and voted upon, and a lot of compromise was involved......strangely, for that year that we had NO Covenants and Restrictions, the neighborhood didn't go to hell in a handbasket.  In short, we did just fine without an HOA......

doc

That's essentially what I ran into, Doc. However, it was more the opposite on how the rules were enforced. They were always by the rule and disallowed more stuff than they allowed. Heck, one member planted some shrubs and the Architectural Committee chairperson sent her a letter saying that those bushes weren't approved. The bigger problem is that the leadership had been in power TOO long and didn't bother to keep up with the laws (which I stuck a couple right up their ass) What I saw is that they let personal preference dictate their "rules".

Not six blocks over was a very new sub-division. They had no HOA and the city was loathe to enforce its own codes. Brand new houses and most of them looked like junk yards, had no grass, weeds over a foot tall, etc. It was a disappointment and a blight on the city.
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Offline Doc

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2010, 05:34:10 PM »
That's essentially what I ran into, Doc. However, it was more the opposite on how the rules were enforced. They were always by the rule and disallowed more stuff than they allowed. Heck, one member planted some shrubs and the Architectural Committee chairperson sent her a letter saying that those bushes weren't approved. The bigger problem is that the leadership had been in power TOO long and didn't bother to keep up with the laws (which I stuck a couple right up their ass) What I saw is that they let personal preference dictate their "rules".

Not six blocks over was a very new sub-division. They had no HOA and the city was loathe to enforce its own codes. Brand new houses and most of them looked like junk yards, had no grass, weeds over a foot tall, etc. It was a disappointment and a blight on the city.

Overall, although I dislike the concept of HOA's, from the prospective that they interfere with private property rights, which you have to sign away when you buy......I will have to say that I lived in a subdivision in California that gave new definition to the word strict.......and it worked out OK, there were no problems, and the property values were well above average.  When we bought the house, the Covenants and Restrictions came in a leather-bound book that was two inches thick!.....

doc

Offline thundley4

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2010, 05:42:05 PM »
Bentley Little wrote a book several years ago, called "The Association".  I don't remember much of it, except that it seemed there was an evil force underground that possessed most of the people in the community. I think there was am X-Files episode similar to it.

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2010, 06:01:10 PM »
it worked out OK, there were no problems, and the property values were well above average.  When we bought the house, the Covenants and Restrictions came in a leather-bound book that was two inches thick!.....

I would return it. "Sorry I am not joining your club"

Offline Doc

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2010, 10:55:59 AM »
I would return it. "Sorry I am not joining your club"

Unfortunately you don't get that choice.......if you want to buy the house, the deed restrictions come with it, if the HOA is already established (which, in California, they are almost a requirement to receive the zoning approval to develop the land).

Which is why, when purchasing real estate of any kind, a title search is essential......to make certaiin that the mineral rights, water rights, road easments, utility easments, etc. are all either intact, or you are aware of any restrictions prior to purchase.

doc

Offline Thor

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2010, 11:37:11 AM »
Exactly, Doc. When I was moving to Becker, MN, there were exactly TWO houses that we were interested in. One was brand new, required extensive work to bring it up to where we wanted, only had a two car garage, a small lot that didn't  have much room for "growth" and also had water damage. The other was pretty close to what we wanted, already had the sod in, some landscaping, a fairly decent deck and a three car garage. Both houses had similar floor plans. We bought the latter. Obtaining the Covenants & restrictions was painful and even when we DID get them, there were only two pages presented to us. (out of some thirty+)
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Offline vesta111

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2010, 03:39:19 PM »
I seem to remember a few posts back you stated that you and your neighbors lived on leased land........that makes a world of difference legally in the latitude that a homeowner (who only owns the leasehold improvements) has.

Different situation entiirely than those of us who actually OWN both the house and the land it sits on.

doc

We rent the land but own our homes, most are $159,000 double wide mobile homes and can regardless what you are told  be taken apart and be moved.

This has become a prime housing thing up here. We are taxed by the town same as a Vechal, then the lot rent and add in the mortgage, utilities and housing costs less then $1,000 a month.

To live in this area it is difficult to find a studio apartment for less then $900 a month, no utilities.

One has to watch the landlord, by law he has a say as to what one does to his land, but the inside of the home is yours.  The lease may say no pets, but if you have an inside cat or small paper trained dog, they have no right to tell you they are not allowed. You have the right to have company or roommates in your home regardless of the lease.  As we have found out through the years from people suing the landlord, much in the leases are against State law.

It took a life and death situation to get the landlord to name our streets and give a valid map to the town as to everyones location.==Someone needed an ambulance and the fire department nor medical help could find his home.

This is what the late, lamented, HOA had wanted done but were afraid to speak up about.

Now that we know that a double or triple wide home can in fact be moved, some of us have used our 401k to buy a lot up north and have our homes moved there.

Yes Doc, why not when the mortgage is paid get a small piece of land and take the darn thing  with you.  These are our homes, we pay for them and pay for upkeep as with any thing else we own.  There is no way I would consider selling my home, I would have to pay three times as much to buy a one room shack in today's economy. 

Economics for the poor folk. comes in here, for $20.000 I can get a piece of land , $10,000 to move it and then just have low taxes and utility bills to pay.

If I sell it, I have to think about moving to a very much smaller apartment that I can be evicted from if the owner goes bankrupt.   Back to someone telling me how to live.  I cannot buy a home or a hunting cabin for the money I get for the house and have to become indebted again for the money to buy a shack.

Check out this way of living, if near retirement buy some land and every year put in water-then sewage  then a power base.

Sit back and every now and then look into sales on modular homes, or what ever they call trailers today.  In some cases you can get a cost locked in and actually design the layout yourself.  The options are limitless.------Then look around at the cost for a conventional home that was built to someones Else's ideas and costs 3-4 times the amount.

While you are at it check into the prices of these homes on a canal in Bare Foot Bay FLA.

Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2010, 04:35:49 PM »
Quote
can regardless what you are told  be taken apart and be moved

Its expensive though

Offline Chris_

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2010, 07:55:27 PM »
Check out this way of living, if near retirement buy some land and every year put in water-then sewage  then a power base.

Sit back and every now and then look into sales on modular homes, or what ever they call trailers today.  In some cases you can get a cost locked in and actually design the layout yourself.  The options are limitless.------Then look around at the cost for a conventional home that was built to someones Else's ideas and costs 3-4 times the amount.


Er....I AM retired, and we live in "tornado alley".....the last place I'd want to live is in a double-wide........they have an annoying habit of ending up as a pile of splinters and styrofoam......in the next county......

doc
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Offline Hawkgirl

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2010, 08:28:05 PM »
My community has your typical Nazi HOA.  I got a letter from them once because I forgot to bring in the garbage bin one night... :whatever:
I think the HOA president rides around his little car at night checking these stupid little things so he can send you a Got You! letter.

 :whatever:

I would buy a home in a non-HOA community..but in my Palm Beach county...it would have to be in crack alley..because all of the nicer, safer areas are in planned communities.

Offline littlelamb

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2010, 09:56:20 PM »
How sad for her I wonder if they have some way to help her fight it
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Offline debk

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2010, 12:07:46 AM »
We rent the land but own our homes, most are $159,000 double wide mobile homes and can regardless what you are told  be taken apart and be moved.

This has become a prime housing thing up here. We are taxed by the town same as a Vechal, then the lot rent and add in the mortgage, utilities and housing costs less then $1,000 a month.

To live in this area it is difficult to find a studio apartment for less then $900 a month, no utilities.

One has to watch the landlord, by law he has a say as to what one does to his land, but the inside of the home is yours.  The lease may say no pets, but if you have an inside cat or small paper trained dog, they have no right to tell you they are not allowed. You have the right to have company or roommates in your home regardless of the lease.  As we have found out through the years from people suing the landlord, much in the leases are against State law.

It took a life and death situation to get the landlord to name our streets and give a valid map to the town as to everyones location.==Someone needed an ambulance and the fire department nor medical help could find his home.

This is what the late, lamented, HOA had wanted done but were afraid to speak up about.

Now that we know that a double or triple wide home can in fact be moved, some of us have used our 401k to buy a lot up north and have our homes moved there.

Yes Doc, why not when the mortgage is paid get a small piece of land and take the darn thing  with you.  These are our homes, we pay for them and pay for upkeep as with any thing else we own.  There is no way I would consider selling my home, I would have to pay three times as much to buy a one room shack in today's economy. 

Economics for the poor folk. comes in here, for $20.000 I can get a piece of land , $10,000 to move it and then just have low taxes and utility bills to pay.

If I sell it, I have to think about moving to a very much smaller apartment that I can be evicted from if the owner goes bankrupt.   Back to someone telling me how to live.  I cannot buy a home or a hunting cabin for the money I get for the house and have to become indebted again for the money to buy a shack.

Check out this way of living, if near retirement buy some land and every year put in water-then sewage  then a power base.

Sit back and every now and then look into sales on modular homes, or what ever they call trailers today.  In some cases you can get a cost locked in and actually design the layout yourself.  The options are limitless.------Then look around at the cost for a conventional home that was built to someones Else's ideas and costs 3-4 times the amount.

While you are at it check into the prices of these homes on a canal in Bare Foot Bay FLA.

From what I understand, here.....in mobile home parks, the land is owned by the "developer" and the mobile homes are either owned by individuals that purchased the mobile home and moved it into the development, purchased the MH from someone who no longer wants it and is willing to continue to make the rent payments on the lot, or rents from the developer or MH owner.

Clayton Mobile Homes are built here and there are many different levels of quality.....ranging from what is referred to as "trailer walls" to regular dry wall, and some are well over 2000 SF and really really nice. Most people here, will buy a vacant lot, have the utilities put in, and put the mobile home either on a permanent foundation or do the mobile home "set-up" with the skirt panels around the bottom.

I'm like TVDoc though....I grew up in tornado alley, my dad was in the insurance business....and I grew up hearing that God hates trailer parks. No matter what .... when it comes down to a mobile home and a tornado...the tornado always wins. :(

 
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Offline vesta111

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2010, 05:59:11 AM »
From what I understand, here.....in mobile home parks, the land is owned by the "developer" and the mobile homes are either owned by individuals that purchased the mobile home and moved it into the development, purchased the MH from someone who no longer wants it and is willing to continue to make the rent payments on the lot, or rents from the developer or MH owner.

Clayton Mobile Homes are built here and there are many different levels of quality.....ranging from what is referred to as "trailer walls" to regular dry wall, and some are well over 2000 SF and really really nice. Most people here, will buy a vacant lot, have the utilities put in, and put the mobile home either on a permanent foundation or do the mobile home "set-up" with the skirt panels around the bottom.

I'm like TVDoc though....I grew up in tornado alley, my dad was in the insurance business....and I grew up hearing that God hates trailer parks. No matter what .... when it comes down to a mobile home and a tornado...the tornado always wins. :(

 

To live in tornado alley I would have to live in a Geodesic Dome home or semi underground.

Offline JLO

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2010, 09:53:35 PM »
Yep. I can't imagine living under an HOA. Heck, we're living in town now and it's too much for us. Seems to be a rule about everything. And it's too crowded. I need at least a 1/4 mile to the next neighbor.

Man, I hear ya!  The neighborhood Thor describes of Becker, MN is exactly why we moved the hell up north from Big Lake, MN.  Ack!  Too many people.  We had 5 acres and the developers were exploding everywhere in Sherburne County, MN.  Got out 12 years ago.

It is very nice and peaceful in the northwoods.  (Until the Twin City shitiots invade every weekend to their cabins.)   But - they fuel the economy!  :rotf:
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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2010, 10:51:32 AM »
To live in tornado alley I would have to live in a Geodesic Dome home or semi underground.

or a monolithic dome


Offline vesta111

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Re: HOA Evicts 85 Y/O Woman for Not Paying Dues - House Sold for $100
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2010, 02:22:18 PM »
or a monolithic dome



Be still my heart.  My Dream Home.

Whats his name the architect that designed these things ----Westminister something------was a genius.   Darn his name escapes me at this time.

Anyway, in the early 1990's the government would pay a hefty portion of the mortgage to those that had these domes built.

The concept comes from the fact that a round home is the way to go from the hottest places on earth to the igloos of the north.

These homes are built to with stand a hurricane, tornado, earth quake everything but flooding or fire.

It was said that these homes take  off 3/4 the expense to heat or cool, in any climate.  They are so strong  that when one small one had to be demolished to make way for a larger one, the contractors finally had to blow the sucker up as there was no other way to remove it.

There are sites that show how to build a geodesic dome yourself for a camp or home on line.