Author Topic: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments  (Read 4607 times)

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Offline Chris_

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New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« on: April 20, 2010, 12:48:22 PM »
Take my house, please: Property taxes crushing residents in towns like West Orange

By Paul Mulshine/The Star Ledger
April 20, 2010, 5:55AM


Rosary Morelli has been living in West Orange since 1963. To hear her tell it, she’ll be lucky to get out alive.

“I can’t pay the taxes on my house,” said Morelli at a Sunday afternoon anti-tax rally on the steps of town hall. “I can’t even sell my house. In fact, with the offers the realtors are giving me, I could just put a sign outside saying, ‘Take my house.’ Take it for free. Just pay for the Dumpster.”

Morelli might have been exaggerating a bit for dramatic effect. But maybe not. A check of one of those foreclosure websites on the internet shows more than 500 houses in West Orange up for sale. A big reason is the property taxes.

Also at the rally was Adam Kraemer, who is running for the board of education on today’s ballot. Kraemer, who has three kids in the public schools, was among the speakers calling for a “no” vote on a school budget that would raise property taxes another 7.3 percent. Combined with an expected increase in the municipal tax rate, that could put Kraemer’s house and many other houses in town over the West Orange Line.

“The West Orange Line” is a term I made up to describe a New Jersey invention I observed in an earlier visit to the town where Thomas Edison lived.

Our state seems to be the first in America to have pushed property taxes so high that in a town like West Orange, the tax bill may exceed the mortgage payment on a typical house.
That would seem to be the case in Kraemer’s neighborhood. The tax bill on his four-bedroom house on a quarter-acre lot is $25,972, he said. That will go up to about $27,600 if the budget is adopted as written, he estimated.

Kraemer doesn’t want to sell his house. He likes West Orange. But if he did want to sell, he said, he could get perhaps $500,000 judging from recent sales in his neighborhood. Do the math and you’ll see that the property tax payment on such a home could indeed exceed the monthly mortgage payment.

But who would pay West Orange taxes when they could move somewhere cheaper? Not Dick Codey. More than one speaker at Sunday’s rally noted that the former state Senate president had sold his overtaxed house in town. He now lives in Roseland.

That should give you a good idea just what a mess we’re in here in Jersey. Codey served as governor for a year, yet could do nothing about the tax crisis in what was then his home town.

But what about the current governor, the Republican who ran on a promise of cutting taxes? Chris Christie is moving West Orange farther over the line than any governor in history. Even if the voters take the governor’s advice and vote down the school budget, that vote would have at best a minor impact on property taxes.

The major factor driving up property taxes in that town and other suburbs in the state is the bizarre school-funding formula Christie adopted. All school aid comes from the Property Tax Relief Fund, which consists of the entire income tax and half a cent of the sales tax. And in this regard, West Orange’s problem is simple: The town pays a whole lot into the fund. But it gets back just a pittance.

West Orange residents pay more than $60 million a year in state income taxes. Under Corzine, the pittance they received in property tax relief was $9.5 million, about 15 cents on the dollar. Christie cut aid to $3.5 million, or a little over a nickel for every dollar the town sends to Trenton.

As a result, property taxes will skyrocket next year no matter what the voters do today. Their only hope is that the pols of both parties in Trenton will finally get the message and do something for people who are being taxed out of their homes. Maybe they will finally put on the ballot a property tax reduction plan similar to that adopted by California or perhaps Michigan.

Or maybe the state could just start paying for the Dumpsters. That would be a start.

© 2010 NJ.com. All rights reserved.



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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2010, 12:51:30 PM »
Notice West Orange doesn't even consider cutting spending.

Offline Chris_

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2010, 05:56:26 PM »
Geez I wonder what his tax accessed value is? Mine is @ 160K and my property taxes are between 700 and 800 dollars a year.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2010, 06:08:33 PM »
Like I've always said, we don't own anything, we're just renting it from the gummint.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2010, 07:12:06 PM »
And guess what happens when people start refusing to pay?

FWIW, nice try blaming Christie for the woes of West Orange. 
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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2010, 07:13:12 PM »
FWIW, nice try blaming Christie for the woes of West Orange. 

Typical leftist "reporter"

Offline MrsSmith

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 07:21:34 PM »
Geez I wonder what his tax accessed value is? Mine is @ 160K and my property taxes are between 700 and 800 dollars a year.
Mine is valued at 50K, and my property taxes are $850 a year.  That's better than Nebraska, where 42K was $850 a year.   Still, nothing compared to the OP!!!   :o :o :o
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 07:33:21 PM »
I'll never bitch about my property taxes again.  $5K for a house assessed at 210K.
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Offline zeitgeist

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2010, 07:35:11 AM »
I'll never bitch about my property taxes again.  $5K for a house assessed at 210K.

Don't make me get out of my chair and lecture on OPSEC again.  You do know what the key to keeping the moochers and looters out is, right?? High taxes.  That's right, liberals love high taxes they just don't like paying them. Face it taxes are so high here and services so poor that folks are better off staying in Vermont, Maine, and Taxachusetts.  Now get with the damn program.  No more of this satisfied talk, ok??
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2010, 07:50:13 AM »
Oh, don't get me wrong--the only reason this state is even remotely solvent is because of the godawful "fees" we pay, not to mention the absolutely toxic business climate.  I still can't fathom how one can pay the second-highest state business tax AND property tax, along with rent/lease and all the costs for energy.

Frankly, I AM tired of the logic behind these taxes/fees being, "But Massachusetts is higher!"  Yeah, but only marginally.
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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2010, 07:51:53 AM »
NJ voters apparently voted down 34 of 39 school budgets.

Maybe the people of NJ are actually waking up?

Is that possible?

Offline njpines

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2010, 08:04:15 AM »
NJ voters apparently voted down 34 of 39 school budgets.

Maybe the people of NJ are actually waking up?

Is that possible?

Yes -- it happens every year.  We vote them down and the townships go behind our backs to the gov. who allows them.  Maybe it'll be different this yr with Christie?
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Offline zeitgeist

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2010, 08:08:14 AM »
Oh, don't get me wrong--the only reason this state is even remotely solvent is because of the godawful "fees" we pay, not to mention the absolutely toxic business climate.  I still can't fathom how one can pay the second-highest state business tax AND property tax, along with rent/lease and all the costs for energy.

Frankly, I AM tired of the logic behind these taxes/fees being, "But Massachusetts is higher!"  Yeah, but only marginally.

That's better.  Here in P_town North we are breathlessly awaiting the doubling of our water and sewer fee even as some debate the merits of continued funding of a public indoor pool which loses a cool half million per year.  But it is for: Choose one>  The children, the elderly, the handicapped, the non school swim team.  I say drowned all their polo ponies and polo shirt wearing weenies, close the damn thing and fix the sewer problems, but then, I am a hard hearted, cruel money grubber who would like to see his tax dollar go to the benefit of all as opposed to some special interest group.


Rember our motto: Live, Fees, and Die.  ( or is it Live, Freeze, and Die, I can  never remember.) :-)

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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2010, 08:08:19 AM »
Sure sounds like it might be.

Offline zeitgeist

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2010, 08:17:10 AM »
Sure sounds like it might be.

Until the wee people wrestle back control from the Public Employee Unions, it ain't ever going to happen.  They are able to buy the local school boards and town councils (or more correctly pack them with partisans).  I would like a dime for every time I read "We can't do anything about the increased cost, it is a contractual obligation".  The Union Label has created unsustainable salaries and pension costs in more than just my kneck of the woods.  It is about damn time tax payers wake up to the fact that these "contractual obligations" are little more than a license to steal brought to you by union regulations that would make a mafia don blush.
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Offline njpines

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2010, 09:18:30 AM »
I live in a century-old house on about a 1/2 acre (a little less) of land on the edge of the Pine Barrens in South Jersey near a town known as the blueberry capital. We bought our house in 1990 and it has not been reassessed in these 20 years since.  We paid about $2900 (yes, hundred -- not thousand!) in property taxes in 2009; 55% of that goes for school taxes.  The only "city" service we receive is garbage pickup -- we have a well and a brick-lined cesspool as there's no water or sewer lines in our street.  There are affordable places to live in NJ but damned if I want the north Jersey people down here as their baggage will follow them.

It's a corrupt system and has been for ages but Christie seems to be willing to fight it.  I truly hope he succeeds -- the unions (teachers and public employees) are out for his head -- because time has almost run out on this state. 

This might sound odd but I actually like living here even with all the traffic to/from work, the jokes about the state, the jokers running the state (!), etc.  We like our quiet woodsy street, the fact that our house is paid off -- yay!, day trips to Cape May on the weekends from May through Oct., my husband has his boat and is fishing at least once a week, it seems.  And you know what I REALLY like?  Not having to PUMP GAS!!!!!!! :hi5:
Piney Power!!

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"We will preserve for our children (America), the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness. If we fail, at least let our children and our children's children say of us we justified our brief moment here. We did all that could be done."  -- Ronald Reagan.

"Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you." -- Quest for the Holy Grail

Offline zeitgeist

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2010, 09:32:59 AM »
I live in a century-old house on about a 1/2 acre (a little less) of land on the edge of the Pine Barrens in South Jersey near a town known as the blueberry capital. We bought our house in 1990 and it has not been reassessed in these 20 years since.  We paid about $2900 (yes, hundred -- not thousand!) in property taxes in 2009; 55% of that goes for school taxes.  The only "city" service we receive is garbage pickup -- we have a well and a brick-lined cesspool as there's no water or sewer lines in our street.  There are affordable places to live in NJ but damned if I want the north Jersey people down here as their baggage will follow them.

It's a corrupt system and has been for ages but Christie seems to be willing to fight it.  I truly hope he succeeds -- the unions (teachers and public employees) are out for his head -- because time has almost run out on this state. 

This might sound odd but I actually like living here even with all the traffic to/from work, the jokes about the state, the jokers running the state (!), etc.  We like our quiet woodsy street, the fact that our house is paid off -- yay!, day trips to Cape May on the weekends from May through Oct., my husband has his boat and is fishing at least once a week, it seems.  And you know what I REALLY like?  Not having to PUMP GAS!!!!!!! :hi5:

I have seen many nice areas of Jersey it truly is The Garden State.  Of course you have to suffer with the "What exit" jokes if you live there. :whatever:

But,

Quote

After having dug to a depth of 10 feet last year, New York Scientists found traces of copper wire dating back 100 years and came to the conclusion, that their ancestors already had a telephone network more than 100 years ago.

Not to be outdone by the New Yorkers, in the weeks that followed, a California archaeologist dug to a depth of 20 feet, and shortly after,  a story in the LA Times read:  "California archaeologists, finding of 200 year old copper wire, have concluded that their ancestors already had an advanced high-tech communications network a hundred years earlier than the New Yorkers"

One week later. A local newspaper in  New Hampshire  reported the following: "After digging as deep as 30 feet in his pasture near Rochester , New Hampshire , Sparky, a self-taught archaeologist, reported that he found absolutely nothing. Sparky has therefore concluded that 300 years ago,  New Hampshire  had already gone wireless".

Just makes a person proud to live in New Hampshire , don't it Sparky.



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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2010, 10:06:45 AM »
Translating this into American from the PRNJ-unique issues to which it refers, what it means is that in NJ, the schools depend on state subidies from income tax and other sources for a huge part of their budget; since West Orange is so wealthy, the formula that is applied on the state aid gives the school district almost nothing.

Now, to understand why that's a problem, NJ schools are not consolidated county school districts or anything sane like that, but something like 280 individual fiefdoms, each with its own board of education (Often salaried or with big perks like vehicles for personal use), its own highly-paid superintendent, and admin staffs...plus of course a retirement system for the teachers that would make the UAW jealous. They have a grotesque pay bargaining system under which the district can't really ever lower pay or entitlements because a state arbitration process takes over if there is a deadlock between teachers and any district that has a momentary flicker of frugality.

Their fire protection districts and township government structures are equally crazy-quilt, but neither is remotely as wasteful and costly as the school district structure.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 11:25:18 AM by DumbAss Tanker »
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Offline njpines

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2010, 10:30:29 AM »
Translating this into American from the PRNJ-unique issues to which it refers, what it means is that in NJ, the schools depend on state subidies from income tax and other sources for a huge part of their budget; since West Orange is so wealthy, the formula that is applied on the state aid gives the school district almost nothing.

Now, to understand why that's a problem, NJ schools are not consolidated county school districts or anything same like that, but something like 280 individual fiefdoms, each with its own board of education (Often salaried or with big perks like vehicles for personal use), its own highly-paid superintendent, and admin staffs...plus of course a retirement system for the teachers that would make the UAW jealous. They have a grotesque pay bargaining system under which the district can't really ever lower pay or entitlements because a state arbitration process takes over if there is a deadlock between teachers and any district that has a momentary flicker of frugality.

Their fire protection districts and township government structures are equally crazy-quilt, but neither is remotely as wasteful and costly as the school district structure.

Exactly -- except it's more like 580 individual fiefdoms. I kid you not!  No wonder the NJEA wants to put a Sopranos-like hit on Christie!
Piney Power!!

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"We will preserve for our children (America), the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness. If we fail, at least let our children and our children's children say of us we justified our brief moment here. We did all that could be done."  -- Ronald Reagan.

"Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you." -- Quest for the Holy Grail

Offline Mike220

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2010, 10:49:14 AM »
Exactly -- except it's more like 580 individual fiefdoms. I kid you not!  No wonder the NJEA wants to put a Sopranos-like hit on Christie!

Holy shit. Texas is how much bigger than NJ? And we only have around 1100 school districts.

I would still live in Cape May though. I like it there. Even with the screwed up state govt.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2010, 11:03:10 AM »
Exactly -- except it's more like 580 individual fiefdoms. I kid you not!  No wonder the NJEA wants to put a Sopranos-like hit on Christie!

My apologies, I misremembered just how effed-up NJ really was...perhaps it's some pyschological defense mechanism, working to erase the traumatic effect of living there for ten years!
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2010, 11:19:32 AM »
One week later. A local newspaper in  New Hampshire  reported the following: "After digging as deep as 30 feet in his pasture near Rochester , New Hampshire , Sparky, a self-taught archaeologist, reported that he found absolutely nothing. Sparky has therefore concluded that 300 years ago,  New Hampshire  had already gone wireless".


 :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

What?  Hey...   :bird:
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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: New Jersey Property Taxes Exceed Mortgage Payments
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2010, 11:21:05 AM »
That was pretty funny