primitives discuss Democrats in tortured disarray

[franksolich]

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7800465

Oh my.

tekisui  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-26-10 11:39 AM
THE PRIMITIVE WHO'S AFRAID OF USA4ME
Original message

House Democrats in Disarray Over Anti-Torture Provision (More Caving From Weak Dems) 

Source: The Raw Story

Democratic leadership in the House was in disarray last night after having to withdraw the 2010 Intelligence Authorization Act, moments before it was to have been voted upon, as the result of a controversial anti-torture provision

The amendment was added in the House Rules Committee late on Wednesday and had not previously been vetted in committee. It would have criminalized the most extreme forms of "enhanced interrogation" and provided stiff sentences for intelligence officers or medical professions who engaged in them.

Republican opposition caused the Democrats to attempt to remove the provision from the bill on Thursday by a unanimous consent agreement. When the Republicans refused to go along, the Democratic leadership was forced to pull the bill entirely.

In the wake of the debacle, there was confusion as to how the provision had gotten into the bill, and Democratic leaders appeared to be attempting to distance themselves from it.

The American Prospect had reported earlier that the amendment was proposed by House Intelligence Committee Chair Sylvestre Reyes (D-TX). After the withdrawal of the bill, however, Politico cited Democratic sources as saying that "House Rules Chairwoman Louise Slaughter attached the provision to the bill Wednesday over the objections of other House leaders." One source told RollCall, "No one wanted it in there," and Rep. Jane Harmon (D-CA) insisted, "It's a mystery how that language got in there."

more: http://rawstory.com/2010/02/house-democrats-disarray-an...

Fumesucker  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-26-10 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
 
1. The Democratic party caves so much it should change its name to the Spelunking party..

atreides1 (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-26-10 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
 
2. Cowards the lot of them

So now the official policy of the Obama administration is that torture is bad, but only if someone else does it.

How long before it's okay to conduct medical experiments on enemy combatants?

It's okay with franksolich if we start right now.

tekisui  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-26-10 11:46 AM
THE PRIMITIVE WHO'S AFRAID OF USA4ME
Response to Reply #2

4. I think the position is "torture is bad, but not bad enough to seek justice". But to sweep it under the rug. Disgusting.

Individualist  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-26-10 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
 
7. You call it caving; I call it enabling.

vadawg (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-26-10 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
 
8. i call it survival politics...

tekisui  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-26-10 11:57 AM
THE PRIMITIVE WHO'S AFRAID OF USA4ME
Response to Reply #8

9. Pathetic excuse to deny justice.

vadawg (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-26-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
 
10. they see the no win situation of putting a CIA operative on trial for getting info on future attacks

do you really think this would play well outside and with the voting public...

Bluebear  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-26-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
 
11. So you think the voting public is pro-torture, do you?

vadawg (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-26-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
 
12. in a word yup, if they think it stops an attack, and if you put a CIA operative on trial the american public would in a large percentage be on their side, especially if he said he was following the legal advice of the commander in chief.

Bluebear  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-26-10 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
 
13. They sure didn't care much when a CIA operative was outed by Bush & Cheney

vadawg (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-26-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #13

16. big difference and i think you know it, putting an operative on trial is a big public in your face

theres not a politician in the country who would survive the fallout if the operative went on trial for doing what would be perceived as trying to gain intell in order to save US citizens, regardless or not if you believe it works or not...

tekisui  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-26-10 12:19 PM
THE PRIMITIVE WHO'S AFRAID OF USA4ME
Response to Reply #10

14. It would play well if they did it.   

Don't tell me you believe the ass-smoke that torturing actually prevented attacks.

vadawg (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-26-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
 
15. dosent matter if you believe it stopped attacks or not, its how it would look

the operative would just have to state that he was getting intelligence and his lawyer would say imagine if my client had any of the 911 guys we could have stopped that attack and america will agree with him... if you think otherwise then you tell me why the Dem leaders are scared shitless of going after the operatives and lawyers.

Flaneur (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-26-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
 
17. Yeah, well, the German public was pro-Nazi. Doesn't mean they were right. 

Torture undermines our fundamental values. No excuses, anc certainly not political expediency.

Individualist  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-26-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
 
18. So, you value how it plays above upholding justice.

Damn the DLC!

vadawg (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-26-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
 
19. nope just telling you the reality of it, the world just works that way

Individualist  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-26-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
 
20. What a load of horse hockey!

"The world just works that way" because you and DLC say so.

spanone  (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-26-10 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
 
22. the democratic party is doing everything possible to push me out.

tekisui  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-26-10 12:41 PM
THE PRIMITIVE WHO'S AFRAID OF USA4ME
Response to Reply #22

23. Me too. 

They aren't giving me any reasons to work for them.

Tim01  (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-26-10 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
 
24. I'm all in favor of killing the badguys.

But torture? Doesn't that make US the badguys?

vadawg (1000+ posts)      Sat Feb-27-10 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #24
 
26. the issue is what different people define as torture

i think everyone can say that pulling out fingernails is torture, but some people would class sleep deprivation as not being torture whilst others would, same with stress positions and using insects. Therein lies the problem you put a CIA guy on trial for not letting a suspected terrorist sleep for two or three days and its not going to go over well with the voting public.. and it will cost any politician attached votes..

Tierra_y_Libertad  (1000+ posts)        Fri Feb-26-10 12:50 PM
THE LIBERTINE TERRORIST PRIMITIVE
Response to Original message

25. Politics-as-usual, and fear, supercede justice where the CIA is concerned. 

And, the usual suspects cave.

[BlueStateSaint]

If one of their relatives' lives could be saved by waterboarding an AQ operative, they'd be all for it.

****ing hypocrites.

[Carl]

They don`t give a damn about "torture",their own words describing what they wish on us proves that.

This is a means to a political ends of vengeance and silencing a political enemy (The Bush Administration) and nothing more.

[Chris]

They don`t give a damn about "torture",their own words describing what they wish on us proves that.

This is a means to a political ends of vengeance and silencing a political enemy (The Bush Administration) and nothing more.

Much like spending.  They ripped Bush for his deficit spending, and now look at them.  Hypocrites and liars, all of them.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

If one of their relatives' lives could be saved by waterboarding an AQ operative, they'd be all for it.

****ing hypocrites.

Which is ironic because I don't think it is worth waterboarding hajjis to save DUmmies.

[thundley4]

Tim01  (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-26-10 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
 
24. I'm all in favor of killing the badguys.

But torture? Doesn't that make US the badguys?

If they're going to end up dead , then they won't complain about the torture, will they?  Why not get the useful information out of them first.

[JohnnyReb]

Which is ironic because I don't think it is worth waterboarding hajjis to save DUmmies.

There's the solution: We torture the DUmmies in front of the hajjis and tell them this is what happens if you don't talk.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

There's the solution: We torture the DUmmies in front of the hajjis and tell them this is what happens if you don't talk.

I like the cut of your jib, sir.

[GOBUCKS]

I'm all in favor of waterboarding muslims before execution, regardless of any intelligence that might be gained. But the really offensive behavior is capturing them, when they could have been simply killed on the spot.

We can hope the military is getting the message that if they capture these animals, the jug-eared Kenyan will immediately assign them a defense lawyer, and they may be acquitted and relocated next door to you in the U.S.

[thundley4]

I'm all in favor of waterboarding muslims before execution, regardless of any intelligence that might be gained. But the really offensive behavior is capturing them, when they could have been simply killed on the spot.

We can hope the military is getting the message that if they capture these animals, the jug-eared Kenyan will immediately assign them a defense lawyer, and they may be acquitted and relocated next door to you in the U.S.

Plenty of good videos showing our military taking out the scum.

http://apacheclips.com/

[BlueStateSaint]

Plenty of good videos showing our military taking out the scum.

http://apacheclips.com/

The "Women and Guns" link there is worth a gander . . . 

[dandi]

I have a challenge for the "torture doesn't work" DUmmies.

Let me tie you to a chair and take your wallet.

Then I break out my handy-dandy Black & Decker cordless drill.

How long do you think it will take for me to have the PIN numbers to all your credit cards? The location of your stash? Where on your hard drive to find your midget/animal/NAMBLA porn? My guess is it will be counted in seconds, and in most cases I wouldn't even have to break the skin.

Afterward, you can tell me more about how torture doesn't work.


All that aside, the DUmmies don't give a good crap about the comfort of Joe Hadji, how we look in "the eyes of the world," or anything else so high-minded. This is all about BDS and their maniacal, delusion-filled obsession with exacting revenge on the previous administration. They'll never recover from it. Forty years from now on their deathbeds their final breaths will be used spitting and cursing over how "Bush got away with it."

With all the unspeakable horrors on this planet that humans heap upon other humans, the one you're going to hang your collective hats on is some murderous thug having water poured over his face?

Please.

Be glad you have a network of batshit crazy echo chambers in which to bounce around your faux outrage. The real world ain't buying it.

[Duchess]

I have a challenge for the "torture doesn't work" DUmmies.

Let me tie you to a chair and take your wallet.

Then I break out my handy-dandy Black & Decker cordless drill.

How long do you think it will take for me to have the PIN numbers to all your credit cards? The location of your stash? Where on your hard drive to find your midget/animal/NAMBLA porn? My guess is it will be counted in seconds, and in most cases I wouldn't even have to break the skin.

Afterward, you can tell me more about how torture doesn't work.


All that aside, the DUmmies don't give a good crap about the comfort of Joe Hadji, how we look in "the eyes of the world," or anything else so high-minded. This is all about BDS and their maniacal, delusion-filled obsession with exacting revenge on the previous administration. They'll never recover from it. Forty years from now on their deathbeds their final breaths will be used spitting and cursing over how "Bush got away with it."

With all the unspeakable horrors on this planet that humans heap upon other humans, the one you're going to hang your collective hats on is some murderous thug having water poured over his face?

Please.

Be glad you have a network of batshit crazy echo chambers in which to bounce around your faux outrage. The real world ain't buying it.

Well said!

[miskie]

If one of their relatives' lives could be saved by waterboarding an AQ operative, they'd be all for it.

******* hypocrites.

more like if a dog, cat or 'misbehaving' Orca could be saved... Remember, most of their relatives are knuckledraggin' rethuglikkkans.

[PatriotGame]

spanone  (1000+ posts)      Fri Feb-26-10 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
 
22. the democratic party is doing everything possible to push me out.

No worries, there are people out there that will welcome you into their group with open arms:

Be proud of those you enable, you democrat leftist sack of shit!

[diesel driver]

No worries, there are people out there that will welcome you into their group with open arms:

Be proud of those you enable, you democrat leftist sack of shit!

Future targets....

Kill the little F'kers before they procreate....

[DumbAss Tanker]

No worries, there are people out there that will welcome you into their group with open arms:

No way that'd happen, the little Pali kid has more balls than every biological male on DU put together, even if in the service of an evil cause.