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Stinky The Clown (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:04 PM#05 TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009; THE SPARKLING HUSBAND PRIMITIVEOriginal message Please tell me why our health insurance is now considered a Cadillac plan. We are two people. We each have chronic illnesses that require constant check-ins and a cornucopia of regular meds to control. We are just a few years above and below sixty.We pay out of pocket for the insurance. It is hardly fancy. It is an HMO. We have drug benefits, but no dental and no vision.We can elect to go out of the HMO and pay 20% plus a deductible.Again, we pay street rates. We are not part of a group. We are both self employed, so if we want insurance, we have to pay for it. If we drop this plan, we will likely never get insured again because of those chronic illnesses.Our premiums have more than tripled in the last ten years.I understand that a policy for more than an individual that costs more than $24,000 is a Cadillac plan and will be taxed.We pay $29,000 a year.We are not rich.That premium is more than our cost for housing and more than our cost for food.I earn more than a teacher but less than an engineer. Sparkly earns less.We are very much willing to pay more in taxes to get health care for everyone. We are not even close to selfish people.But please tell me why our crappy ****ing insurance is worthy of being taxed.Twenty Nine ****ing Thousand Dollars Out Of Our Pockets.And that will now be taxed.Yes, I am angry about this. I am angry at every Democrat who is pushing this, and that includes, but is by no means limited to, the President.
msongs (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:06 PMResponse to Original message 1. why is health care being taxed AT ALL by wealthy politicians who get HC FREE?
Zhade (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 11:37 PMTHE PREVARICATING SHADY PRIMITIVEResponse to Reply #1 35. GREAT QUESTION! Sorry to shout, but it needed to be pointed out.
Cicada (13 posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:12 PMResponse to Original message 2. tax applies only to what employer provides you free if employer gives you, at no tax cost to you, a policy costing the employer $29,000 then employer pays tax on excess of $29,000 over X dollars $24,000 in Senate bill)of cost. If employer gave you a $29,000 car should you get it 100% tax free? Why is health insurance different?
Edweird (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:27 PMResponse to Reply #2 7. Insurance isn't a car.
Bluebear (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:33 PMResponse to Reply #2 11. A car and health insurance are not even close to being the same thing
Stinky The Clown (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:37 PM#05 TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009; THE SPARKLING HUSBAND PRIMITIVEResponse to Reply #2 12. Why do you have orange eyes?
Zhade (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:47 PMTHE PREVARICATING SHADY PRIMITIVEResponse to Reply #2 16. Um, the employer gives that in lieu of higher pay. Surely you know this. It's part of the employee's compensation. No corporation "gives" us health insurance out of the goodness of its heart.Take your bullshit shilling elsewhere. We're not stupid.
dkf (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 10:22 PMResponse to Reply #2 29. He is self employed The employer is him
endless october (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:13 PMResponse to Original message 3. taxing health insurance is a dumb way to pay for it. end the wars and spend that money on single payer.shit, end the ****ing drug wars and spend it on single payer.there are so many better ways to do it. all they have to do is pick one that isn't worse.
jillan (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:14 PMResponse to Original message 4. I believe mine will be as well. My husband is a blue collar worker who just happens to have a great insurance plan. I'm quietly fuming.
berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:27 PMResponse to Original message 8. The premium has to be more than 23k. And you won't be taxed, the Insurance company would be.
Zhade (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:52 PMTHE PREVARICATING SHADY PRIMITIVEResponse to Reply #8 19. Excise tax. Look it up. I swear, you Big Pharma boosters can't even understand basic definitions sometimes.
berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:53 PMResponse to Reply #19 20. I know exactly what the law says. And it says specifically that it charges the Insurance Company.
Zhade (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 11:39 PMTHE PREVARICATING SHADY PRIMITIVEResponse to Reply #20 36. Aaaaaaaaand it's an excise tax. Therefore, it WILL be passed on in some form. You can't ignore the definition.
HuckleB (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:30 PMResponse to Original message 9. That seems overpriced, big time. We have better coverage for a family of three at just more than 1/2 that.
OmmmSweetOmmm (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:31 PMResponse to Original message 10. It's being called Cadillac to distract from the fact that this was McCain's health insurance reform.
housewolf (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:43 PMResponse to Original message 13. I'm so sorry, Stinky It should have been based on what the coverage consists of, not what the insurance co. charges you for insurance. I recently worked for a major health insurer. There are group plans where the coverage actually covers 100% of all medical costs, no deductibles, so co-pays, 100% dental, 100% vision, 100% chiropractic and other so-called alternative providers, and 100% health club (for work-out programs). To me, THAT's a Cadillac Plan - a plan that most of American could never afford to pay for. I'm sorry your insurance is so expensive. You're paying more for health insurance for you and Sparkly than many individuals and families make in a whole year. I don't know how you can do it. What an f-ed up situation we're in!
Zhade (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:46 PMTHE PREVARICATING SHADY PRIMITIVEResponse to Original message 14. Because branding it as such makes it easier to fool people into supporting a tax on it. It's utterly unconscionable, of course.
midnight (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:46 PMResponse to Original message 15. I think it may be taxed because some economist guy who was paid close to a million dollars by our president, told him this is how to oil this product...... Tax and mandate the consumer....
FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 09:57 PM#15 TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009; THE FROG FELINE PRIMITIVEResponse to Original message 21. the Cadillac Plan doesn't include self employed folks, last I checked. Plus, you are able to join a pool of others via the exchange and locate cheaper insurance, with the same benefits, before any excise tax can be charged to your insurance company, as your medical coverage is not part of some contractual package.
galileoreloaded (718 posts) Thu Jan-14-10 10:00 PMResponse to Original message 22. Stinky, you HAVE $29000 a year for insurance. You are rich. Love you to pieces, but man, your loaded.
Stinky The Clown (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 11:32 PM#05 TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009; THE SPARKLING HUSBAND PRIMITIVEResponse to Reply #22 33. You're wrong. What I am is insurance poor. And not sufficiently healthy to ever get any other insurance if I drop this plan.That's not rich. That's being ****ed.
Coyote_Bandit (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 10:01 PMResponse to Original message 23. Ummmm...... I use fully taxable dollars to pay my health insurance premium. The policy carries a $10,000 annual deductible and a co-pay beyond that - and doctor visits are not covered. I have not seen a doctor for any reason in nearly 15 years. Because I am currently unemployed no part of the premium payment is tax deductible - and because I do have taxable income the dollars I use to pay that premium are fully taxable.The pending insurance reform proposal sucks. I may very well withhold my vote in the next election from some Dem incumbents seeking re-election because of this cluster**** proposed legislation. I clearly have no problem with it going down in defeat. Meaningful healthcare reform is my line in the sand. We have a sitting Dem President and majorities in both the House and Senate. There are only a few reasons why the Dems in office cannot deliver such reform: (1) they lack the principled commitment to do so;(2) they lack the political skill and leadership to do so; and/or(3) they lack the guts to do so.And because Congress largely refused to even consider evidence regarding whether or not a single payer system was viable we cannot even pretend this proposal is an informed effort to address the issue. Nevermind the fact that the legislation addresses INSURANCE issues - rather than a much broader range of healthcare issues.
Stinky The Clown (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 11:29 PM#05 TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009; THE SPARKLING HUSBAND PRIMITIVEResponse to Reply #23 31. I, too, am paying this with taxable dollars.
madmax (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 10:02 PMResponse to Original message 24. 24k a year!! Damn Stinky - that sucks major big! How the **** are people suppose to live? That's an outrageous amount of money. I hate these ****ers.Received another questionnaire from Aetna asking if we had other insurance or Medicare. This is about the 5th time. I keep sending nasty notes with them like, 'So, tell me, how large was your CEO's bonus this year?' 'Medicare for ALL'. 'Health care for profit is immoral.'
applegrove (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 10:04 PMResponse to Original message 25. If you don't spend more than $23,000 a year on healthcoverage for your family you will not be taxed.
berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 10:06 PMResponse to Reply #25 26. Small correction: the *premium* has to be more than 23k and it is the insurance company that is taxed, not the individual.
Stinky The Clown (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 11:31 PM#05 TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009; THE SPARKLING HUSBAND PRIMITIVEResponse to Reply #26 32. My out of pocket annual premium is 29K If the insurer is taxed, why will that not be passed on to me?My rates have tripled in the last ten years. How much more should I have to bear?
Zhade (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 11:41 PMTHE PREVARICATING SHADY PRIMITIVEResponse to Reply #26 37. EXCISE. TAX.
ChicagoSuz219 (497 posts) Thu Jan-14-10 10:10 PMResponse to Original message 27. I could be wrong, but... ...I think if you pay for your own insurance, this won't apply to you. Check the details.If anything, you may become eligible to join a group of sorts and get cheaper insurance and/or your own rates may come down. There are also provisions for free preventative care, tests, etc.Check into it... you may be pleasantly surprised!
debbierlus (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 10:15 PMResponse to Original message 28. You are the vehicle to maintain the health industry profit - they would rather break you financially Then, halt the greed and profiteering that brought about the current health care crisis.
mopinko (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 10:31 PMTHE HYPOCHONDRIAL PRIMITIVEResponse to Original message 30. so stinky. you have been straightened out. what say you? hmmmm?
Stinky The Clown (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 11:34 PM#05 TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009; THE SPARKLING HUSBAND PRIMITIVEResponse to Reply #30 34. erm ..... ya. I'll only be straight when I'm laying face up in a velvet box. Meantime, I'm perennially bent over, taking it.
WT Fuheck (371 posts) Thu Jan-14-10 11:41 PMResponse to Original message 38. the same reason they invented "welfare queens" so the idiot lower classes will resent you for it.
zaj (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 11:43 PMResponse to Original message 39. Sounds like you are pointlessly angry... You don't have "... ... "employer-provided health care benefits" do you? You have an individual plan. Correct?
zaj (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-14-10 11:43 PMResponse to Original message 39. Sounds like you are pointlessly angry...
galileoreloaded (718 posts) Thu Jan-14-10 10:00 PMResponse to Original message22. Stinky, you HAVE $29000 a year for insurance. You are rich. Love you to pieces, but man, your loaded.
We are very much willing to pay more in taxes to get health care for everyone. We are not even close to selfish people.
