Author Topic: Insurance and the cost of service....  (Read 2502 times)

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Offline BEG

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Insurance and the cost of service....
« on: November 16, 2009, 11:40:24 AM »
I got a bill for some Lab tests I had at my rheumatologist.  I currently have Aetna PPO and have a $300 per year out of pocket then I pay 10% of the bill after.  Here are the charges:

Russell Venom: diluted   $57.51
Beta-2-GPI IGM   $190.59
Cardiolipin AutoAB IgG   $302.73
IgG Phosphatidylserine   $299.22

Total:  $850.05

Amount Insurance Paid:  $218.74

Write Off Issued per insurance:  $607.00

Amount I owe:  $24.31

SO...what is with the $607.00 write off?  That is a little over a 71% discount.  I know it is an agreement between the Lab and the insurance company but say I didn't have insurance, I would have had to pay the whole amount.  Obviously the Lab is making a profit.  Even with the write off or they wouldn't have agreed to the amount the insurance is willing to pay.  This type of stuff is what needs to be reformed.  If the Lab (doctors, hospitals etc) charged reasonable amounts from the get go (closer to the amounts that insurance is willing to pay) it would go a long way to help overhaul the health care system.  People who didn't have insurance (not the poor obviously) would be better able to pay for their day to day health care expenses (obviously not catastrophic type stuff) that pop up from time to time.  Then the people (again obviously not the poor) who can't afford regular health insurance could buy only catastrophic insurance and then pay out of pocket for their doctor visits, labs, or occasional ER visits etc.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 11:44:09 AM by BEG »

Offline Thor

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Re: Insurance and the cost of service....
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2009, 11:51:48 AM »
That's because the medical industry charges way too much for their services in hopes that some insurance companies or people will pay the higher charge. This is one of the areas where the medical industry NEEDS reform. All in all, they hope to get as much as they can.
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Offline Chump

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Re: Insurance and the cost of service....
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2009, 11:55:25 AM »
Keep in mind that cash customers can also ask for, and usually receive, a significant discount.  I doubt it's as much as the write-off you noticed, but it's still significant.
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Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Insurance and the cost of service....
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2009, 11:56:33 AM »
I found a lot of that "discounting" on the thousands of bills I have received relating to my heart attacks and hospital stay.  There is no rhyme or reason to it.  There is no consistency.  It's like they make it up as they go along.  

Offline BEG

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Re: Insurance and the cost of service....
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2009, 12:02:20 PM »
That's because the medical industry charges way too much for their services in hopes that some insurance companies or people will pay the higher charge. This is one of the areas where the medical industry NEEDS reform. All in all, they hope to get as much as they can.


I get that, but they obviously wouldn't have made the agreement with the insurance company for the agreed upon fees if they were losing money.  I also bet you that not many people who don't have insurance could pay the $850.05 bill that I got (on top of the rheumatologist visit and the xray I had that day).  I also highly doubt that other insurance companies agreements are that much different than Aetna's    This was just a regular old check up, I wasn't even sick.  

Offline Chris_

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Re: Insurance and the cost of service....
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2009, 12:05:29 PM »
That's because the medical industry charges way too much for their services in hopes that some insurance companies or people will pay the higher charge. This is one of the areas where the medical industry NEEDS reform. All in all, they hope to get as much as they can.

These numbers are sort of like the "sticker price" on a new car (as best as I can determine).........Mrs. doc and myself recently retired, and no longer have a dental plan......under our old insurance plan (also Aetna), a crown was billed out by our dentist at $700, Aetna would "allow" $525, of which we would have to cough up half, or a little over $250........

I recently needed a new crown, and simply asked the dentist what my CASH price would be, since we no longer had dental coverage........he said he would do it for $300......

Therefore, understanding that there is an arbitrary markup to these services (since different insurance companies will pay different amounts for the same service, depending on the plan), you can easily ask that you be charged no more than a typical insurance company would pay for the same service (including your copay), and they will accept that.....if not, go somewhere where they will. for the service.....

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Offline BEG

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Re: Insurance and the cost of service....
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2009, 12:47:26 PM »
Keep in mind that cash customers can also ask for, and usually receive, a significant discount.  I doubt it's as much as the write-off you noticed, but it's still significant.

When I had a stroke back in July 1995 I didn't have insurance.  It was our fault, we decided not to cover me because at the time my husbands work would only pay for the employee and we had to pay the whole amount for dependents.  Money was pretty tight but even though we didn't have a lot of extras we could cut some expenses and we could have barely made the extra payment.   We decided to only cover the kids and leave me off the insurance....we thought that nothing could happen to me as I was only 27 at the time my husband started his job (March 1994).  Our plans were to wait awhile and save some money then add me to his insurance at next yearly insurance renewal.  Unfortunately for me I had the stroke before the insurance renewal came that year (the year we planned on adding me).  We gambled and lost but we were young and stupid at the time.    

The doctors who saw me at the hospital wouldn't write off anything at all.  It took us years to pay them off.  The hospital actually wrote off most of the bill (all but $1000 and I had an angiogram and was in ICU for days) because we were considered "indigent" at the time (yet the doctors wouldn't write off a penny).  I don't want to sound ungrateful because I remember the day I got notification that the hospital was writing off most of the bill (can you imagine how much a 7 day hospital stay with 5 days in ICU would be).   I was also greatful for the great treatment I received, heck they didn't even ask for insurance until the day I was checking out of the hospital.

I had to have follow up labs and other procedures after I was out of the hospital so my doctors held off on tests for as long as they could and would only order one at a time to give me a chance to pay off the previous test before they ordered a new one.  I had two doctors after I was out of the hospital and back home in Dallas (I had the stroke in Lincoln Nebraska), a neurologist and a rheumatologist, one saw me for free (neurologist) and the rheumatologist would always mark it down as a level I visit instead of the real level it was (they were always in depth visits).  Most doctors will work with you if you don't have insurance but there are some that wont.  Also the doctors at the hospital I had my stroke called my neurologist and told him I didn't have insurance and asked if he could see me and he accepted me anyway (most likely because I had a freak disease that they hadn't seen before).  My neurologist asked my rheumatologist to accept me as a patient and I'm sure he was excited to see someone with a rare disease as well (both doctors had never had a patient with my disease: Takayasu's Arteritis).  

So I  have experienced health care with out insurance and I can tell you that my life revolved around figuring out just how much I could send out every month on health related expenses while leaving enough left over to pay the bills and have food for my family.  It's not fun and I don't want anyone to have to live like we did at the time.   Lucky for me when my husbands insurance renewal came around they had to take me because I was considered part of the "group".  Money got really tight then because not only were we paying off doctors and other medical expenses, we also had the added expense of my insurance premium.  I started watching kids to help pay the bills (I could have gotten on disability had I been working at the time of my stroke), I don't think I could do that today if it all happened to me at the age I am now...it was hard.  I had a raging case of Takayasu's and on high dose prednisone (60 mg), monthly doctor visits (sometimes weekly depending on what medication I was on) but I did what I had to do to help pay the bills.  My husband would come home from work to take me to the doctor and we would just take all the kids with us to the doctor.  It was a sight to see.... LOL
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 12:56:33 PM by BEG »

Offline BEG

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Re: Insurance and the cost of service....
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2009, 12:52:35 PM »
These numbers are sort of like the "sticker price" on a new car (as best as I can determine).........Mrs. doc and myself recently retired, and no longer have a dental plan......under our old insurance plan (also Aetna), a crown was billed out by our dentist at $700, Aetna would "allow" $525, of which we would have to cough up half, or a little over $250........

I recently needed a new crown, and simply asked the dentist what my CASH price would be, since we no longer had dental coverage........he said he would do it for $300......

Therefore, understanding that there is an arbitrary markup to these services (since different insurance companies will pay different amounts for the same service, depending on the plan), you can easily ask that you be charged no more than a typical insurance company would pay for the same service (including your copay), and they will accept that.....if not, go somewhere where they will. for the service.....

doc

Wow, your dental plan must have been awesome.  We have pretty good dental plan (Delta Dental) and we have to pay about $450 per crown out of pocket (I only have the porcelain crowns so the metal ones are probably cheaper). 

Offline Chris_

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Re: Insurance and the cost of service....
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2009, 01:04:37 PM »
Wow, your dental plan must have been awesome.  We have pretty good dental plan (Delta Dental) and we have to pay about $450 per crown out of pocket (I only have the porcelain crowns so the metal ones are probably cheaper). 

We had a choice (through Aetna) of Delta Dental (which is a HMO here), and a PPO for five dollars a month additional premium......I looked up the providers here in KC for Delta, and actually went and looked at a couple.....I found Dentists offices surrounded by 8-foot fences topped with concertina wire (if you get the gist about the neighborhoods)........I decided that Delta was not for me for five bucks a month......

The PPO would allow us to go to our regular dentist......

doc
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Offline BEG

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Re: Insurance and the cost of service....
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2009, 01:19:29 PM »
We had a choice (through Aetna) of Delta Dental (which is a HMO here), and a PPO for five dollars a month additional premium......I looked up the providers here in KC for Delta, and actually went and looked at a couple.....I found Dentists offices surrounded by 8-foot fences topped with concertina wire (if you get the gist about the neighborhoods)........I decided that Delta was not for me for five bucks a month......

The PPO would allow us to go to our regular dentist......

doc

We had Delta when we were in Dallas too.  My dentist wasn't one of their providers so I had to pay up front then get reimbursed by delta.  The reimbursement rate was quite a bit lower than if we would have had an in network provider.   

Offline Wineslob

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Re: Insurance and the cost of service....
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2009, 02:48:11 PM »
BEG those are negotiated prices. Kinda like a "retail vs discount". It's very common.
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Offline BEG

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Re: Insurance and the cost of service....
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2009, 06:38:28 PM »
BEG those are negotiated prices. Kinda like a "retail vs discount". It's very common.

Look, I'm not trying to be shitty but I KNOW THAT. I stated in my first post that I knew it was the agreed upon price between the lab and insurance company. 

Offline Wineslob

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Re: Insurance and the cost of service....
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2009, 09:48:29 AM »
Well , it could be that if someone were to pay cash, that might be the actual price. Donno. No, it doesn't sound right.
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