http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6618908Oh my.
The bitter old Vermontese primitive cali:
cali (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:03 AM
Original message
I see we haven't learned a thing about jumping to conclusions
You'd think we might have learned something from the Duke debacle a couple of years back.
We haven't.
There is scant evidence that Bill Sparkman was murdered for political reasons, but post after post here is avidly accusing Bachman, Beck and their cohorts of inspiring his murder. Pretty clear that some are hankering for that to turn out to be the case.
Is it really that difficult to exercise some self-restraint and not jump to unfounded conclusions?
Bill Sparkman could have been murdered for any number of reasons. He could have stumbled across a pot growing operation or a meth lab. We just don't know. We don't know if it was a personal vendetta.
We don't know, but there are plenty of DUers who really don't care that there's no evidence.
There's something really unseemly about this.
Unseemly, but oh so typical of primitive behavior.
paulsby (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. i agree
fwiw, i left the website feministing over the duke debacle.
it was pretty clear to me from the beginning that the "victim's" case wasn't kosher, and it went downhill from there and even after a few weeks only, it became pretty clear she was full of crap
but the metanarrative was compelling, so people simply could not stand to admit they were wrong about it. i have NO idea in this case what the reason for the guy's death are, as opposed to the duke case where i started questioning the alleged victim (iow it was pretty clear she was full of crap)
heck, even after the whole thing was debunked, there were STILL people who claimed "something unseemly" happened, etc.
stuball111 (896 posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. I agree...
There was a lot of arguing and speculation going on here tonight. Not very becoming of dear old DU. Lots of nasty shit, and even some rude, "black humor" on the poor guy. I was bullied around a bit for taking the same stance as you, by some who I used to respect as pretty open minded. I kinda lost some respect for some here tonight.
Not very becoming, of course, but the usual standard typical primitive behavior.
The old primitive:
old mark (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. I posted about the possibility of it being drug related -
I'm already on the shit list - or the ignore list - at GD, so it made no difference to me.
It's like a high school sleepover with politics.
cali (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. As you're probably aware, I don't care whether I'm on a DU "shit list"
I'm disgusted by the eagerness with which some are exhibiting. They ****ing want it to be political. It's grotesque and it diminishes the tragedy of what happened to Mr. Sparkman to be using him for politics. Now it may be that he was killed by a rightwinger influenced by the detestable Beck or Bachman, but until there's actual evidence of that, insisting that that's what happened, sucks.
old mark (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. Exactly - at this point, it's all idle speculation - and there is a lot of hope here that it will be political.
Solomon (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. What difference does it make if he stumbled on a meth lab? If that were the case, do you think that has no connection to the current "government is evil" meme propaated by the right?
Rebubula (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. Meth is not political. The makers are too ****ing stupid and to stoned to watch TV that does not involve cartoons or boobs.
If he stumbled on a Meth lab and was killed for it - I do not think that you could tie it to the right.
I mean...have you ever met a Meth maker?? They do not care about anything other than Meth and protecting their shit.
The grouchy old primitive:
NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. Who is "we" may I ask?
cali (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. The DU community as a whole.
The rabid dog primitive:
MadHound (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
7. I see that you haven't stopped trying to be the resident scold around here
Give it a break, it is natural for people to speculate on things that they don't have the full story on. It is human. These people might be right, they might be wrong, but thinking that they are going to wait until the full story is told before commenting on it is an exercise in utter futility.
Besides, who died and made you mod or admin?
And it isn't like I haven't seen you out and about speculating on story after story before the full facts were in.
Give it a rest.
cali (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. lol, look in the mirror, honey. you're certainly doing a great impression of a nagging scold.
oh and put up. I'm pretty careful about speculation, both here and in real life. So no, you won't find absurd speculation like this on my part.
It has nothing to do with being a mod or administrator. I can say what I want just as those I'm criticizing. And unlike YOU, I'm not telling anyone to shut up.
MadHound (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. You're "not telling anyone to shut up?"
Umm, this whole thread that you started is essentially telling people to shut up. What, do you not read what you write?
The primitive franksolich suspects he might know in real life:
DaveinJapan (335 posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. I rarely unrec, and I always post my reasons why so here goes...
Do I think it *might* be due to "drug lords"? No.
It's possible, but not probable.
In fact, I find it strange that it keeps coming up here on DU when it's also a main theme on right winger sites.
It's possible, sure, but I HIGHLY doubt it. Drug growers/manufacturers make a business out of being as low profile as possible. Would they be stupid enough to string up someone they murdered with a "warning" to the feds? I think not.
Tthey could have disposed of the body in any number of low-key ways, if that were the case. The Freepers want to make this a possibility, but I think it's utterly stupid to even go there.
I'd buy into suicide or some other thing before I'd buy into "the drug lords did it", and I definitely don't think it seems like a suicide either.
I really have no idea but I have a feeling it's something to do with paranoid right wingers acting on orders from above...makes sense to me where nothing else does so far. I care very much about evidence, but so far we have very little to go on and this theory makes more sense to me than the drug lord thing (talk about unfounded conclusions!).
So...big unrec on this one, sorry Cali.
REP (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Not "drug lords" - just a paranoid home meth-cooker
Used to be people in those parts brewed moonshine and hated the revenuers. Some traditions change; it's meth they're brewing now.
DaveinJapan (335 posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Maybe so, but I still don't buy it...meth cookers might be paranoid, sure, but again would they make a big high profile case of themselves by stringing up a victim and including a warning to the feds?
Come on!
REP (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Meth is a hell of a drug; not known for creating insight or deep thought
I have no idea why he was murdered, but meth cookers/users are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.
cali (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. you have zero evidence to claim it's possible but not probable.
There's no critical thinking evident in your post. You admit you have no idea but then say you're sure it's not drug related. Doesn't make much sense.
DaveinJapan (335 posts) Thu Sep-24-09 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. I didn't say I was sure it's not drug related.
I said I didn't think so.
And I didn't try to present any evidence, I presented a hypothesis regarding drug guys and their general motivation for keeping hush.
That's a lot more than YOU presented about anything, so I'd say I'm making at least a little more sense than you.
You must have missed the "critical thinking" part I did about how dumb it would be for drug dealers to make a big scene when they kill someone. That didn't strike you as logical?
You seem to be a very adversarial type with your "YOU ADMIT!" and "DOESN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE!", but frankly your original post was nothing more than conjecture just as mine. No?
The primitive who's now on franksolich's excresence list, for having been so callously coarse and rude to the Gloria Swanson primitive at another bonfire; the Gloria Swanson primitive's a much much better man than this jerk:
Quantess (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. Maybe Bill Sparkman was an asshole who deserved to die.
The buzzy one, a non-primitive on Skins's island:
Buzz Clik (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Nice.
Quantess (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Some DUers are implying just that.
Most of it is implied, or innuendo. I think it's a disgrace that an apparent murder victim is a bigger target of criticism than the possible motives for his aparent murder.
Buzz Clik (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
18. DU has the same approach to rumors that dogs have to food.
Dave Barry explains dogs quite nicely: If it hits the floor, eat it immediately. If it isn't food, you can throw it up later.
DUers feel the same way about rumors: Jump to the early conclusions right now. If it ends up that you're wrong, well,
Quantess (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Speculation is all academic, but, when it comes to blaming the victim, that is just wrong and shameful.
Ganja Ninja (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
20. Yeah let's all pretend that their rhetoric has been reasonable and responsible.
stray cat (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-24-09 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
24. DU is a random collection many of whom will never resist jumping on anything that moves without any understanding or background.
