primitives discuss wide people; fat's on the fire again

[franksolich]

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5810893

Oh my.

question everything  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jun-09-09 01:04 PM
Original message

Wide Passengers Don't Sit Well With Airlines

The scales have tipped against oversized airline passengers, much to the glee of some frequent fliers. As travelers complain about losing any of the scant 17 inches of width they get in many coach seats, airlines are increasingly trying to force "passengers of size" to buy an extra seat when they fly. Earlier this year, UAL Corp.'s United Airlines joined Southwest Airlines Co. and several other carriers in implementing a formal policy to get obese customers into two seats instead of trying to shoehorn them into one.

(snip)

Frequent travelers and advocates for the obese would like to see airlines offer a few rows of wider coach seats and charge extra -- just as they do with rows of expanded legroom. Instead of six seats across a typical single-aisle plane, why not have four or five seats and charge 50% extra on a coach fare? That's still a lot less than first-class prices, and perhaps an effective way for airlines to meet a customer need while boosting revenue at the same time. "We're willing to pay for what we are rightfully using," says Peggy Howell, spokeswoman for the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. Buying two seats is a bad solution because of safety issues with seatbelts and comfort issues with armrests that don't fully retract, she notes. Plus, most people don't need two full seats. "What we really need are seats half-again as wide," she says. "Legroom is fine for nice tall men but does nothing for fat passengers who are being imposed on right now."

United, which offers extra legroom in "Economy Plus" rows to frequent fliers and customers who pay extra, says it will review the wide-seat idea. JetBlue Airways, another airline that sells extra legroom to customers, says it hasn't considered selling extra-wide seats. JetBlue does note that its Airbus A320 aircraft have wider cabins than the comparably sized Boeing 737, so seats are more than 18 inches wide, compared with 17 inches for Boeing 737 and 757 jets. "This is one of the reasons we chose the A320," a JetBlue spokesman says.

The tight squeeze of seats on Boeing single-aisle jets has been an issue for decades. In the 1950s, a Harvard University study of New England passenger trains concluded that the minimum acceptable seat width was 18 inches, and that was the norm on most passenger aircraft. But in 1954 the Boeing 707 was designed with a cabin allowing only 17-inch wide coach seats, needing the narrow body to give the plane the speed and range to fly coast-to-coast. Boeing stuck with that layout for the 737 and 757 jets, despite complaints that coach seats were too narrow; widening aircraft adds weight and makes jets more expensive to fly. The first 737s were originally designed for short trips, so tight seating was considered adequate. Later versions had better wings and engines for longer range -- and the same 17-inch seats. There's been no accommodation for wider passengers since.

(snip)

If a passenger doesn't fit into the confines of his or her seat, United can force the oversized customer to leave the plane and wait for another flight with two empty seats side-by-side. If the traveler doesn't want to wait on the standby list for two empty seats, United will sell a second seat at the same ticket price the customer paid... Southwest has had a similar policy since the 1980s. "Customers of size," in Southwest parlance, can book two seats online by repeating the passenger's name with XS as a middle name for the second seat. At check-in, the customer gets a boarding pass, a Reserved Seat document to block other passengers from the extra seat during open boarding and a form for a refund if the plane doesn't oversell and the airline doesn't bump passengers.

(snip)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124450530210396091.html (subscription)

And a companion story to the airlines shrinking leg rooms

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Lance_Boyle (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. "fat passengers who are being imposed on right now"

Thanks to the few airlines who properly decided to impose on them instead of allowing them to overflow the armrests and impose on the rest of us for the same price we paid.

conscious evolution  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. They don't sit well with me either.

I have been squeezed between the hull and seriously obese people spilling over into my seat too many times.

I paid for the whole seat and I damned well want to be able to use the whole seat.

It's a big expansive bonfire, lots of material but limited space, so only the Primitives of Prominence are quoted.

The sparkling husband primitive:

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jun-09-09 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
 
12. The airlines are in the space rental business

They rent space on their airplanes and then promise to do their best to get the airplane from the place where one boards it to the place where one deplanes.

Everything else that is entailed in air travel is an add-on.

First class seats are actually little more than an inflated rent. Each seat is 50% larger than a coach seat, but the upcharge to fly first, and get the better meals and the free drinks, is more than that - and is all profit.

If a person actually occupies more than a standard coach seat, it seems only fair to charge for that if the alternative is to encroach on another's rented space.

It is my view that, back when seats had more room associated with them, we could get away with no upcharge. But as space per seat is decreasing, something needs to be done.

I would prefer we make seat size a minimum. back in the GOOD old days, the airlines were regulated. Some regulation is good.

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jun-09-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #37
 
57. I'm with you.

My post was how the airlines see it .... not a defense of the policy. I think the airlines are awful and getting worse. I will do almost anything to avoid flying.

I hate the airlines.

I hate the crotch sniffing branch of the TSA.

I hate anyone who wishes to see the TSA continue in the business of crotch sniffing.

MADem  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 01:24 PM
Response to Original message

14. Why make them pay fifty percent more? Why not make a few rows a third bigger, and charge them a third extra? I'll bet people who just want a little more space would buy those, even if they didn't "need" them.

Frankly, I don't know many people, fat, thin, or "of average weight and height" who feel comfortable in the airline seats of today. They're like petit-torture devices, with no legroom and no room to wiggle about.

Cleita  (1000+ posts)        Tue Jun-09-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
 
26. Why don't they have a row or two of fat seats?

I know it might be humiliating to the passengers who have to sit in them but it would solve a problem.

It's an amusing bonfire, well worth reading in its entirety.

[BEG]

conscious evolution  (1000+ posts)      Tue Jun-09-09 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. They don't sit well with me either.

I have been squeezed between the hull and seriously obese people spilling over into my seat too many times.

I paid for the whole seat and I damned well want to be able to use the whole seat.

Just as you think you can take my money, I think obese people should be able to take your personal space.

[franksolich]

Just as you think you can take my money, I think obese people should be able to take your personal space.

Whoa-ho.

I never even thought of that.

You're good, madam.

Remarkable.

[JohnnyReb]

Just as you think you can take my money, I think obese people should be able to take your personal space.

But you're talking about "THEIR" space.....your space is a whole nutter matter.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

LOL

DUmmies talking about property rights.

[miskie]

DUmmies just love 'equality' until it affects them personally. Ill be honest , I HATE flying with a passion. With that being said, Airlines are in the freight business - they plan on an average load weight to work the math necessary to insure a safe flight. If the flight is full of super-sized people, it changes the formula. When a passenger takes more luggage with them then expected, they get to pay extra. The same should be true for deluxe model humans.

The fact that it annoys the large person's seat-neighbors takes second place to the fact that more weight=change in flight dynamics and fuel consumption.

[JohnnyReb]

Solution: Install bench seats and charge by the inch........

[miskie]

Solution: Install bench seats and charge by the inch........

That idea actually works perfectly - it would charge the oversized as well as the diminutive appropriately. Then its just a matter of making the armrests slide and lock into place. the lap belts would be connected to the inside of one of the armrests and connect to the inside of the other.

[AprilRazz]

My last experience flying was unpleasant to say the least. I am not a big girl so I tend to not take up my entire seat. The large woman that was seated next to me was happy to oblige. Not only did she spill over into my seat but she complained about everything the entire flight. At least she was kind enough to try to cover up most of her body odor by showering in the cheapest perfume she could find. My allergies were giving me a fit until I was able to get home to shower and change clothes.

Did I mention I hate flying?