primitives debate stale old issue, free medical care for all

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5566190

Oh my.

KitSileya  (1000+ posts)      Thu Apr-30-09 06:56 AM
Original message
 
My $137, three-night hospital stay.

So, I just spent $137 for three nights at the local hospital for really bad cholecystitis. Well, actually, I spent $0 for my stay in hospital, the $137 are copays for the ER visit, the taxi from the ER to the hospital (the hospital I was admitted to is about 2 miles from the ER - I said I could take the bus, as I was amazingly ambulatory, so we compromized with a cab), and the medicine I got prescribed when I went home, which was the bulk of it (2/3 of the sum). I didn't have to pay a dime for the stay or any of the tests done while in hospital, as I was considered an emergency case.

Doing the math, $137 amounts to the pay for about 3,5hrs of work before taxes - granted, I have a really well-paid job, the lowest-income group would have to work 7hrs to earn the same amount. Of course, I paid more in the form of taxes, since that's how we support this system. But still, it just makes it really clear to me how blessed we in Norway are to have universal health care. I am very grateful to my fellow Norwegians for being willing to pay to give me health care, and therefore I am willing to pay for them having health care as well.

Next to me the first night in semi-intensive care, there was a woman, a drug addict, who'd apparently been brought in unresponsive, who'd hit her head as she fell due to the drugs. She signed out AMA in the early morning, after getting a good breakfast. I'm sure she didn't pay a single dime for her stay. I don't mind that my taxes are used for her benefits. I wouldn't have wanted to read in the news that a woman had been found dead on the street because she didn't get medical attention.

I guess that what baffles me with the US, is how a nation can refuse to help their neighbors when they can afford it. How can Americans who are against universal health care claim to be good citizens, to be good Christians (most of them), to be good human beings?

It's called "tough love," sweetheart.  Sometimes one has to be tough, when caring.

It's a medium-sized bonfire, the usual incoherent primitive bibble-babble.

Some here might recall the vindictive primitive, whom I discovered last week; the primitive thinking about going to India, going to a place with a beach, to get the hip replaced.  Apparently a grotesquely overweight primitive who did all that damage to his hips?

Vinca  (1000+ posts)      Thu Apr-30-09 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
 
10. You wouldn't be interested in adopting an uninsured American who got the word last week that a hip replacement is needed . . . would you? It must be great to live in a country that cares about ALL its people.

franksolich cares about all America's people, but he cares considerably less about those Americans who simply want to parasite off of him.

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)        Thu Apr-30-09 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
 
14. I am pissed off at thre selfish shits who are my fellow citizens and the uncaring leaders ........

.... who are perfectly happy to foist off some insurance based scam on us. I hope they all get to watch a loved die from the wait in the line to settle the bill.

Well, franksolich is pissed off at all the selfish landlords who don't give people free rent.  Shove that up your ass and smoke it, sparkling husband primitive.

KitSileya  (1000+ posts)      Thu Apr-30-09 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
 
29. AMA - against medical advice

I don't have "insurance" as such - this is a right I have as a Norwegian citizen, in fact, just by the fact that this happened in Norway. Emergency care is pretty much free in Norway, even for non-citizens, even for tourists. Medicine can be pretty expensive unless you're low income - those qualify for a special program. However, should I happen to get ill a lot during 2009, it benefits me to save every receipt, and if it gets above a certain sum, I can deduct it on my taxes. Or get what's called a free card, where you get everything after you've paid a certain sum for free.

Physiotherapy, for example, if prescribed by your doctor, will not cost you more than $400 in copays in a year no matter how many appointments you have. After surgery however, physio doesn't cost you anything.

There is a divide between whether the treatment is necessary or not - cosmetic surgery needs to have a medical reason (i.e., breast enlargement is not free, but breas reduction can be if you and your doctor thinks it's necessary.) And yeah, waiting lists for non-emergency operations are higher - on average 100 days. So when I get the appointment my doctor at the hospital set me up for in 3 months to explore removal of my gallbladder, and they decide I need it removed, I'd probably get it removed in december sometime. Unless I see there's a hospital in Norway that has less of a waiting lis, and I decide to get operated there insted. (I'd have to pay the travel costs myself, then.)

The pull yourself up by your own bootstraps mentality is completely foreign in Norway. Even our most right wing party recognizes that health care is a sacred cow, even if they do suggest to "reform" and "better" it by privatizing and giving people "more choices".

high density  (1000+ posts)      Thu Apr-30-09 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
 
21. I don't get this rant?

I think most people in this country would be very pleased if they went to the ER and then stayed in the hospital for three days, and their total liability was $137. That is cheaper than any hotel I've ever stayed at. Wait 'till you see the insurance claim and how much your insurance paid for your trip. Yes it would be great if everybody had good health insurance, but the fact is that you and I are not in the business of providing insurance to our neighbors.

[JohnnyReb]

uh?....hay Mr or Mrs Norway, what's your tax rate....how much does gas cost ...never mind...even with your high paying job, you can't afford a car. Hell, in America, the poor drive to the welfare office in SUV's, wear gold around their necks and so forth......and die from FAT related problems.

We're such a cruel bunch, stuffing poor, lazy people with food until it kills them.

[Celtic Rose]

Wow, my employer offers better insurance than Norway    My emergency room co-pay is $100, and the co-pay is waived if I have to be admitted, and stays in the hospital are free.    Of course, I have to pay part of my insurance, and my employer has to pay, nothing is free afterall, but I'm really happy with system. 

Here in the US, nobody is denied emergency care.  Yes, you will have to wait in the emergency room if it is not a matter of life and death, but nobody is going to be sent home if they can't pay.  We have big signs in the emergency room here in California, in Spanish and English, announcing that emergency care is available even to those who can't pay. 

[Mike220]

Damn, high density beat me to the hotel stay comparison.

That's disconcerting.

[terry]

We are good, compassionate, Christian people because we voluntarily reach into our own pockets and we help other people in need.  We do more of this than any other nation of people on the earth.

We are good, compassionate, Christian people because we don't believe in reaching into other peoples' pockets to help ourselves, which is also know as stealing.

We are good, compassionate, Christian people because we believe in providing assistance for people who are truly physically disabled and cannot care for themselves.

We are good, compassionate, Christian people because we believe in providing assistance for people who temporarily find themselves in a situation of need.

We are good, compassionate, Christian people because we provide emergency care when needed regardless of ability to pay.   You may have to pay later but you are not denied the care.

Insurance is a good idea.  A bunch of people paying into a pool of money, that will help the few individual people in the group who have something unusual and catastrophic happen.   Paying about 7hrs worth of work for your medical care should not be a catastrophe.  Paying for a thousand bucks or so in a year for your or your families medical care should not be a catastrophe.  Most people pay more than that for their internet/cable tv/phone bills.  

Surgery, bone breaking accidents, diseases like cancer, these things are catastrophic.  Things that require hospitalization are catastrophic. Having to pay $50,000 in a year for medical care would be catastrophic for most.  For those things you should have insurance.  

edited by franksolich to add the missing word "not"; sorry for the inconvenience

[Sam Adams]

There's no such thing as a free lunch. Someone has got to pay. If the taxpayers paid for my health care, that would bother me, at least a little. But the DUers? Not so much, obviously.

[Sam Adams]

We are good, compassionate, Christian people because we voluntarily reach into our own pockets and we help other people in need.  We do more of this than any other nation of people on the earth.

We are good, compassionate, Christian people because we don't believe in reaching into other peoples' pockets to help ourselves, which is also know as stealing.

We are good, compassionate, Christian people because we believe in providing assistance for people who are truly physically disabled and cannot care for themselves.

We are good, compassionate, Christian people because we believe in providing assistance for people who temporarily find themselves in a situation of need.

We are good, compassionate, Christian people because we provide emergency care when needed regardless of ability to pay.   You may have to pay later but you are denied given the care.

Insurance is a good idea.  A bunch of people paying into a pool of money, that will help the few individual people in the group who have something unusual and catastrophic happen.   Paying about 7hrs worth of work for your medical care should not be a catastrophe.  Paying for a thousand bucks or so in a year for your or your families medical care should not be a catastrophe.  Most people pay more than that for their internet/cable tv/phone bills. 

Surgery, bone breaking accidents, diseases like cancer, these things are catastrophic.  Things that require hospitalization are catastrophic. Having to pay $50,000 in a year for medical care would be catastrophic for most.  For those things you should have insurance. 

Fixed.

And great points. It's amazing how much influence Christianity has had in this country. The country will look and act much differently if we ever lose that. And we probably will.

[Lord Undies]

Hey, Little Goons!   The Dallas-Ft.Worth metro area has a larger population than Norway.  Does that give you pause?  Can you catch a clue? 

[Wineslob]

DUmmies, just move there, oh wait, you have to WORK to pay the taxes there.

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Norway/Taxes-and-Costs

[USA4ME]

How can Americans who are against universal health care claim to be good citizens, to be good Christians (most of them), to be good human beings?

That automatically tells me that this individual hasn't a clue as to what Christianity is all about.

Christianity doesn't really address politics other than to inform us that God is in control and we need only concern ourselves with doing what He would have us to do.  Ever single case mentioned of helping the poor, the fatherless, widows, the hungry, etc.... has to do with individuals (either by themselves or a group of individuals pooling resources) helping other individuals or the local church helping its own members who are in need.  I can't find anything in the scriptures that says universal/single-payer healthcare is immoral, so that's not the point.  These dolts continually try to make it out that to not support it is somehow a violation of God's Will, of which they have no basis in scripture to make such a claim.  If the gov't were to completely fold in this country, that doesn't relieve those who are Christians of their duty to care for the poor, fatherless, widows, hungry, etc... as God has commanded, so obviously Christians assisting others with their health has nothing to do with gov't.

I know, preaching to the choir.

.

[AprilRazz]

I don't have a co-pay and all I have to pay for is meals in the hospital. I also don't pay premiums but I pay in other ways. I was (until this past October) and my husband is still AD military. The DUmmies want free health care then they can join the military and get it that way.
But Tricare is far from ideal. I have to go to the podiatrist and the first possible appointment that I could get is a month and a half away.

[terry]

Fixed.

And great points. It's amazing how much influence Christianity has had in this country. The country will look and act much differently if we ever lose that. And we probably will.

Thanks for the fix. I meant "NOT denied" .. always leaving out important words.

[The Village Idiot]

The poor in America have microwaves, cable-TV, they're fat, eat meat every day, wear $100 shoes until some gangbanger kills them for it and drive really big cars to the food stamp office.

sounds better than being average in Norway to me...

.. sorry frank, I know your partial to Norway a bit

[franksolich]

.. sorry frank, I know your partial to Norway a bit.

Of course I'm partial to Norway, but not to sweetheart who lit this bonfire on Skins's island.