WV Democrats bucking the Messiah

[ironhorsedriver]

On the heels of Sen. Byrd claiming Obama is trying to gain to much power and is acting unconstitutionally. The WV House has a bill before it to require drug testing on all welfare recipients or anyone else who gets public funds. This is a state that is just about wholly run by Dems.
Wonder how long before Obama banishes them to the abyss?

[Eupher]

Apparently the legislation isn't quite there yet.

Welfare Dopers

[Eupher]

Oh, by the way - if the testing costs are too high, what's that telling us about how much money we're giving away to begin with?

I'd say the money to test comes right out of the welfare budget. You're not going to hit the taxpayer twice for passing out freebies.

And to those who cry foul, in being "humiliated" for having to piss in a bottle, tough shit.

If you're on the public dole and are standing there with your hand out, the public has a right to know that their "contribution" isn't going to a crackhead.

[thundley4]

I'd be okay with  everyone being tested before getting welfare and then being subjected to random testing.

[Eupher]

I'd be okay with  everyone being tested before getting welfare and then being subjected to random testing.

Yeah, but it's still a question of cost. The legislators want to know what it costs to give away money.   

Testing laboratories are another problem - where are they and what's their capacity? I'd be willing to bet that there just aren't that many labs in WV, which means yet more costs due to FedEx.

Leaky packages, anyone?

Then the list of concerns continues - what do you do about testing protocols? Do you have to have the welfare recipient observed while delivering a sample? (Don't laugh - I once saw a guy who attempted to have his "sample" diluted with water obtained when he flushed the urinal. He was sent to the back of the line to wait long enough to piss again and sure enough, he pissed hot.)

I've had to piss in a cup a helluva lot over the years and while I never had a problem with somebody witnessing my sample delivery, there are way too many dingleberries out there who are "uncomfortable" with that.

I've also been issued a cup and told to go deliver the sample in the bathroom over there. Water in the sink fully available, toilet operative, etc. Lots of opportunity there for cheating.

[thundley4]

Yeah, but it's still a question of cost. The legislators want to know what it costs to give away money.   

Testing laboratories are another problem - where are they and what's their capacity? I'd be willing to bet that there just aren't that many labs in WV, which means yet more costs due to FedEx.

Leaky packages, anyone?

Then the list of concerns continues - what do you do about testing protocols? Do you have to have the welfare recipient observed while delivering a sample? (Don't laugh - I once saw a guy who attempted to have his "sample" diluted with water obtained when he flushed the urinal. He was sent to the back of the line to wait long enough to piss again and sure enough, he pissed hot.)

I've had to piss in a cup a helluva lot over the years and while I never had a problem with somebody witnessing my sample delivery, there are way too many dingleberries out there who are "uncomfortable" with that.

I've also been issued a cup and told to go deliver the sample in the bathroom over there. Water in the sink fully available, toilet operative, etc. Lots of opportunity there for cheating.

They have the new type of cups with the tests right on the cup and can be read by anyone.

[Eupher]

They have the new type of cups with the tests right on the cup and can be read by anyone.

 

Silly me!

[docstew]

Yeah, but it's still a question of cost. The legislators want to know what it costs to give away money.   

Testing laboratories are another problem - where are they and what's their capacity? I'd be willing to bet that there just aren't that many labs in WV, which means yet more costs due to FedEx.

Leaky packages, anyone?

Then the list of concerns continues - what do you do about testing protocols? Do you have to have the welfare recipient observed while delivering a sample? (Don't laugh - I once saw a guy who attempted to have his "sample" diluted with water obtained when he flushed the urinal. He was sent to the back of the line to wait long enough to piss again and sure enough, he pissed hot.)

I've had to piss in a cup a helluva lot over the years and while I never had a problem with somebody witnessing my sample delivery, there are way too many dingleberries out there who are "uncomfortable" with that.

I've also been issued a cup and told to go deliver the sample in the bathroom over there. Water in the sink fully available, toilet operative, etc. Lots of opportunity there for cheating.

Testing centers?  the federal gov't already owns two state of the art centers for military drug tests.  Transportation?  Urine samples are routinely sent by USPS to them (my record is over 1000 samples, 1 leaky bottle), and no issues with chain of custody.  Embarrassment?  Service members are routinely drug tested, and it's at the whim of a company commander when it happens, and what percentage are selected.

Bottom Line:  anyone that recieves tax dollars should be liable to show they don't do drugs, whether they be Soldier, teacher, or welfare recipient.

[Thor]

Testing centers?  the federal gov't already owns two state of the art centers for military drug tests.  Transportation?  Urine samples are routinely sent by USPS to them (my record is over 1000 samples, 1 leaky bottle), and no issues with chain of custody.  Embarrassment?  Service members are routinely drug tested, and it's at the whim of a company commander when it happens, and what percentage are selected.

Bottom Line:  anyone that recieves tax dollars should be liable to show they don't do drugs, whether they be Soldier, teacher, or welfare recipient.

Or Congressmen & Senators...... 

[Eupher]

Testing centers?  the federal gov't already owns two state of the art centers for military drug tests.  Transportation?  Urine samples are routinely sent by USPS to them (my record is over 1000 samples, 1 leaky bottle), and no issues with chain of custody.  Embarrassment?  Service members are routinely drug tested, and it's at the whim of a company commander when it happens, and what percentage are selected.

Bottom Line:  anyone that recieves tax dollars should be liable to show they don't do drugs, whether they be Soldier, teacher, or welfare recipient.

In your opinion, doc, would the military's testing centers open business for all 50 states (in the unlikely event that so many states would invoke what WV's considering)? I'm banking no, that's simply too many. Ergo, more testing centers would have to be contracted to deliver.

For 1,000 samples to have just one leak, that's a pretty good record. I would've expected more.

And yes, the chain-of-custody thing has withstood the test of time. The military, by far, has had more experience in this area than any one civilian entity - I'd bet my next Army retirement check on that.

But since retirement, I've pissed in the bottle 5 times as a part of pre-employment screening. And I've seen some pretty iffy systems there, as compared to the military's system.

I can just imagine that any effort by a state to require its welfare recipients to piss in the bottle would result in a shambles, cheating, and all kinds of bureaucracy that wastes resources and time (should that state not be able to engage the military facilities in handling the testing). I simply have no faith in government to get its act together.

Don't get me wrong - I absolutely concur that if people are lining out to get free handouts, they need to prove that they're worthy. And by "worthy" I mean they're free of illegal drugs, actively looking for work (if able) and otherwise looking to get off the public's teat.

[docstew]

I would fully understand that it would be unlikely, if not impossible, to utilize the mil's testing centers.  Was only discussing the logistical points you brought up.  However, could the several states not contract with their state university system (could be a problem with accrediting them for what is essentially law enforcement)?  State Bureau of Investigation labs?  Point being, there are facilities.  If there aren't, some entrepeneur will build one, assuming the govt gets out of the way (big assumption, i know)

As far as my record on leaky bottles, I had a secret.  I did all the final lid tightening and packaging bare handed, so I had a vested interest, so to speak, in ensuring there were no leaks.

[MarshallLaw]

On the heels of Sen. Byrd claiming Obama is trying to gain to much power and is acting unconstitutionally. The WV House has a bill before it to require drug testing on all welfare recipients or anyone else who gets public funds. This is a state that is just about wholly run by Dems.
Wonder how long before Obama banishes them to the abyss?

The guy who proposed this is a Republican, there actually are a few in this state.



It won't go anywhere.

[mamacags]

Two things
1. Why can't they take blood tests.  It makes cheating virtually impossible.

2. W.V. is much more conservative than most states.  Seeing a D or R after a person's name doesn't mean as much as it does elsewhere.

[Eupher]

Two things
1. Why can't they take blood tests.  It makes cheating virtually impossible.

2. W.V. is much more conservative than most states.  Seeing a D or R after a person's name doesn't mean as much as it does elsewhere.

Doc can speak about this better than I can, but the "cheating" angle isn't restricted to how the sample is given. There's the chain of custody issue and there's the possibility of "sample mishandling."

Any system devised by man can be thwarted.

Is WV really as conservative as we think? How can a state continue to reelect one doddering old former KKKer, ostensibly a "Southern Democrat" but in reality a senile old man loyal to his party despite the fact it is overrun with liberal moonbats; and yet another Democrat, Jay Rockefeller, who is serving his 25th year as the junior senator from WV?

ironhorsedriver, in his post above, maintains that this legislation won't go anywhere because the sponsor is a Republican and that those are scant in WV.

This legislation, imho, is easily killable because it will cost money to enact. And I'd also say that doing blood tests instead of urine tests is much more expensive because of how the sample is taken.

This is a great thought, but my money's on ironhorsedriver. It's doomed for the shitpile.

After all, we couldn't POSSIBLY offend our welfare recipients now, could we?

[docstew]

Two things
1. Why can't they take blood tests.  It makes cheating virtually impossible.

2. W.V. is much more conservative than most states.  Seeing a D or R after a person's name doesn't mean as much as it does elsewhere.

Blood tests, at least for something like this, would require trained phlebotomists to draw the samples, and some people's veins are harder to find than others.  Anyone can pee in a cup, and anyone can be trained to observe said peeing in a cup, if observers are needed.

[diesel driver]

Yeah, but it's still a question of cost.

I'm sure that the cost will be more than offset by weeding out the junkies.... 

Testing laboratories are another problem - where are they and what's their capacity? I'd be willing to bet that there just aren't that many labs in WV, which means yet more costs due to FedEx.

Have the hospitals do the drug testing.  Everybody has one of those, and they already have the administration in place to bill Medicaid/Welfare directly for the costs....

If the state Welfare goes with a standardized drug test, the cost of testing will be very low, and results will be more uniform....

[diesel driver]

On the heels of Sen. Byrd claiming Obama is trying to gain to much power and is acting unconstitutionally. The WV House has a bill before it to require drug testing on all welfare recipients or anyone else who gets public funds. This is a state that is just about wholly run by Dems.
Wonder how long before Obama banishes them to the abyss?

Sounds like "Sheets" Byrd is reverting to his KKK roots....