Solar energy's darker side

[LC EFA]

As an aside, I pay some attention to the use of both PeV and thermal solar systems because people I know actually live off the grid and use them. Generally only for running 12V lighting and a small inverted AC circuit.

None of these people see that while PEV solar may be okay in some situations, it's not a workable solution for supplying a major grid based system with a fluctuating load.

Javaman  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Thu Jan-15-09 11:13 AM
Original message
Solar energy's darker side stirs concern
   
Advertisements [?]
(just to note, I'm a big supporter of solar, but I also am aware of the energy used, waste produced and the environmental fallout that is a result from their manufucture, that said...)

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-notsogreen14-2009...

Everybody loves solar, the shiny superstar of renewable energy.

But scratch the surface of the manufacturing process and the green sheen disappears. Vast amounts of fossil fuels are used to produce and transport panels. Solar cells contain toxic materials. Some components can't be easily recycled.

That has some environmentalists worried about a new tidal wave of hazardous waste headed for the nation's landfills when panels eventually wear out. A report to be released today by the Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition warns that the industry and lawmakers need to set policies now to ensure that a clean technology doesn't leave a dirty legacy.

"You can't just call your product green and close your eyes to what's happening in the supply chain," said Sheila Davis, executive director of the San Jose nonprofit group that pushes for green practices in the technology sector.

"The solar energy industry is running into some of the same problems . . . we've seen in the electronics industry," whose waste is polluting U.S. landfills and contaminating groundwater with harmful substances such as mercury and chromium, Davis said.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x182860

This sort heretical thinking is normally vehemently discouraged.

TechBear_Seattle  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Thu Jan-15-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. If I went back to college and wanted to learn how to research non-toxic solar panel tech...
   
What courses should I focus on? Physics and chemistry?

Mythology ?

kestrel91316  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Thu Jan-15-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. P chem? That's physical chemistry. The class that made most people
   
at my school run screaming from rather than take.

Oh, electrical engineering, yoo.

Tough stuff. Not for intellectual lightweights.

Kinda tells us that none of you DUmmies are going to get anywhere near it. Might conflict with your basket weaving classes.

DCKit  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Thu Jan-15-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. A paid advertisement courtesy of Big Energy.
   
Laws and enforcement to regulate pollution and recycling make this argument moot. Additionally, thin film manufacture is getting cleaner, cheaper and is less energy intensive.

Pure propaganda.

Where can I get a writing gig like this?

So you just outsource the manufacture to some where like , say , China. Their regulations appear a little easier to circumvent.

Javaman  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-15-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Everything runs on oil, we all know that, but...
   
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 11:26 AM by Javaman
I think their point is: many people out there think solar panels are "clean", meaning fossil fuels aren't used in their manufacture.

there was a troll tool on here two days ago, laughing at people who drive their cars while he takes the bus. it's that backward mentality that is still very evident in society regarding what is perceived as a clean source of energy and what is not. That troll was tombstoned but not before I got my snarky remark in about him thinking his bus ran on magic dust. LOL

People still need to be educated.

Many of those people post on DU.

Education is fine provided that you dictate the curriculum is what you were trying to say.

conscious evolution  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-16-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
37. keep them well maintained.
   
Sorry.I gotta laugh my ass off at that statement.At least as when applied to solar panels.
As someone who maintains a solar system the only maintanence our panels have needed is an occasional cleaning.Even most of the rest of the system seldom needs repair work.(Our charge controller is too new to judge yet.)The only component we have ever had to replace was a fourteen year old mechanical timer switch that wore out.
Over 15 years old,our panels are producing more power than they are rated for.Rated for an output of 85 watts at 17.5 vdc they are actually producing around 105 watts at 21 vdc.Not to shabby,eh?

For me the biggest hurdle is getting th cost down so that more people can afford them.


When it comes to other means of generating power maintainance is going to be a problem.I hope designers and manufacturers take this into account.Most people have trouble maintaining a car or home much less something as seemingly complicated as generation system.

*cough* Bullshit. *cough*

 

[jukin]

I've designed several printing and drying machines in the solar cell manufacturing industry and here are some facts:

First, solar panels (electrical or PV) never pay for themselves.

Second, solar panels are about 50% of what everyone claims as actual wattage.

Third, the growth rate for manufacturing and implementing solar panels to remove just coal for electrical production for the USA in 20 years would be near 2500% annually.

Fourth, radiant (hot water) heating is a useful and efficient way to use the suns energy... but it is not stressed like PV.

Fifth, there is one useful way to harness the sun radiance on the earth... hydro-electric dams.  But the light grey four toed salamander might get hurt there will be no more dams built.

Solar PV is the second biggest boodoogle next to AGW.

[The Village Idiot]

In some climates it makes sense to get a solar water heater but there is not the technology level to make it work as a major, full power power system especially out of the sunbelt. It is not cost effective at all either.

[LC EFA]

In some climates it makes sense to get a solar water heater but there is not the technology level to make it work as a major, full power power system especially out of the sunbelt. It is not cost effective at all either.

There's a fair few places around town that have solar pool heaters for winter. The heater consists of a whole bunch of black plastic pipe laid in a grid on the roof of the house. The same system is used in a couple of off the grid places for hot water systems.

Using electricity derived from solar is just fine running the lights and some small appliances in a domestic situation as well, but it has limitations and issues even there. Couple of cloudy days and your reserves are running low so the generator or mains supply have to come on. Want to use a heavy duty appliance, on with the generator (unless you feel like using all your storage - even if it can deliver the amps).

Solar doesn't scale well enough for use on a large enough scale to make it a viable solution.

[NHSparky]

jukin--Dead on with every point.  Can't add anything more.

^5.

[dutch508]

Read Seth Potter's work on Space Based Solar Power.

It will be reality in the next ten to fifteen years.

[The Village Idiot]

dutch unfortunately Obama wants to cut NASA and curtail our space explorations