As a physician, I would not be surprised if John McCain does have early Alzheime

[bijou]

Bread and Circus  (1000+ posts)       Wed Sep-10-08 01:56 PM
Original message
As a physician, I would not be surprised if John McCain does have early Alzheimer's... 
 Advertisements [?]Edited on Wed Sep-10-08 01:57 PM by Bread and Circus
or senile cognitive decline.

I really hate to make a "Bill Frist" diagnosis but I just wouldn't be surprised if this is what turns out to be the case.

Let's all just start out with a simple fact that is plain to see, John McCain is not the same person he used to be. Something has definitely changed. He strikes me as a man who is being led around by the nose and told what to say and do.

What's interesting about early Alzheimer's is that it can be very hard to notice, even by those very close to the person. Alzheimer's patients often become very invested in covering up their declining short term memory and do a very good job in "confabulating" in order to maintain the illusion of keen-ness. Furthermore, even with advanced disease, Patients can retain fairly good handles on long term memories.

It's not until you do some cognitive screening (like the Folstein Mini Mental Status exam or the MOCA test (see www.mocatest.org ) do you find that the patient's short term memory is shot.

Early in the disease, there are a few medications that can temporarily relieve some of the symptoms and mildly improve function. However, Alzheimer's is a slow and progressive disease. It may be that if McCain were elected he would be at the same place at the beginning of his Presidency as Reagan was at the end of his.

If John McCain truly has Alzheimer's or another progressive cognitive disease, I would feel really sorry for him and his family. It's a devastating problem that affects almost every family in America. My heart would seriously go out to them.

However, it would connect all the dots as to how the "wheels came off the straight talk expresss" and how John McCain went from a somewhat decent politician to a stage prop in a Rovian horror flick.

What's really scary is that he could become non-functional in his Presidency, leaving Palin at the helm along with her "Oil Buddies" and her "Megachurch Holy Rollers" that are bent on "taking over from the inside out". Perhaps that has been the plan all along.

Now, I could be 100% wrong. Perhaps John McCain is just a doddering old fool. But there's no argument, he's not the man he used to be.

 

Maat  (1000+ posts)      Wed Sep-10-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. I agree with your assessment.
 I've been saying it for months. I'm a retired social worker, with a Master's in Psych., and I worked with seniors for awhile. My dad suffered from alcohol-abuse-induced cognitive decline (Wernicke-Korsakoff's), and was in a lockdown facility for nine years, before passing away. I see the same behaviors in McCain. This country is in a whole lot of trouble; the number of people supporting McSame shows that.

JenniferZ  (1000+ posts)      Wed Sep-10-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Nobody here WANTS McCain to have Alzheimer's. Not at ALL.
 But it's a deal breaker if he does have it. It trumps every issue, unfortunately.

I'm also wondering if it might explain the fact that he is so much different now than he was in 2000. Because Alzheimer's changes personality as well as memory. The McCain of 2000 would never have run the sleezy ads that the McCain of 2008 is running.

If he has Alzheimer's I have much empathy for him. Nevertheless, it makes him unfit for duty.

wienerdoggie  (1000+ posts)      Wed Sep-10-08 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. During his convention speech, several times he delivered his applause lines
 Edited on Wed Sep-10-08 02:19 PM by wienerdoggie
and then would look down and almost shrug, or look befuddled. My husband said, "He doesn't look too convinced about what he just said", and I agreed--but maybe he just wasn't picking up the meaning of what he was reading? Almost detached from his own words.

edit to add: as a nurse and having had grandparents with Alzheimer's, I know what you mean about how well people with Alzheimer's can mask their symptoms, or bluff their way through everyday situations--until they get knocked out of their routines, that is--as in Sundowner's syndrome.

Bubbha Jo (77 posts)       Wed Sep-10-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. Ever notice that some of those who acquire Alzheimer's
 are the ones with the biggest egos? Heston..Reagan. Thoughts take form. Their thoughts of inflated self-importance of decades and decades hover around them like flies. Their subconscious will take steps to break that shield down before their physical death. But that's a topic not for this forum... ; )

He's got one of the worst. I would be amazed if he didn't have difficulties with that disease.

mopinko  (1000+ posts)       Wed Sep-10-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
20. i completely agree. i wonder about lieberman, also, and zell miller.
 turning more conservative as your brain atrophies makes perfect sense to me.
and it is funny, the way people start to lose it, but at the same time stamp that with their own personalities. it took us a long time to figure out that my MIL was slipping, because many of the stories she was making up seemed plausible, because it was her. and some really rude behavior also was just right in line with how she was. or at least until you went home and thought "gee, that was really strange wasn't. oh, well, she can be like that."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7016015#7016143

So presumably they now think the Obamessiah is getting his ass kicked by an Alzheimers sufferer and a fundie girl. Yet they are still going to vote for him.

[formerlurker]

So presumably they now think the Obamessiah is getting his ass kicked by an Alzheimers sufferer and a fundie girl. Yet they are still going to vote for him.

 

[USA4ME]

Bubbha Jo

18. Ever notice that some of those who acquire Alzheimer's are the ones with the biggest egos?

If that's the case, then the Obamassiah is King Alzheimer's.

.

[Chris_]

AkFemDem  (167 posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Wed Sep-10-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. PRAYING it is NOT true!!
   
1. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, after watching loved ones suffer through it.
2. I really believe John McCain has been through enough physical and mental pain and anguish in his life and wish him no more.
3. I really don't see how it benefits democrats, even if he is removed from the ticket because they'll replace himk with someone who will galvanize their base and use McCains name as a rallying call.

I guess that would be the Tex Baxter flying pig.  S/he TRIED to be truly compassionate, but it still has to be all about politics.

[FlaGator]

Bubbha Jo

18. Ever notice that some of those who acquire Alzheimer's are the ones with the biggest egos?

If that's the case, then the Obamassiah is King Alzheimer's.

.

Ever notice that those who suggest that people with big egos will get Alzheimer's seem to have been suffering from it themselves for years?

[jukin]

The the Obamatrons got some splainin to do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

Or is The Obama talking about the OIC of which there are how many states?

What about this for mental clarity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUQ8gc6EKPE

Or how about when he constantly forgets what city he is in?

I have yet to see McCain have such huge mental lapses.

Also I find it real hard to believe that there is a MD on that board.

[BlueStateSaint]

The the Obamatrons got some splainin to do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

Or is The Obama talking about the OIC of which there are how many states?

What about this for mental clarity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUQ8gc6EKPE

Or how about when he constantly forgets what city he is in?

I have yet to see McCain have such huge mental lapses.

Also I find it real hard to believe that there is a MD on that board.

What's the difference between an MD and a PhD?  The MD sticks his fingers up other people's asses.  He could be a PhD . . . or a witch doctor, for all the DUmp knows.

[franksolich]

Also I find it real hard to believe that there is a MD on that board.

The crumbs and peepshows primitive isn't a physician in the commonly understood way.

No M.D.

Not even a lesser D.C.

I saw this bonfire earlier, and checked around, because I was curious as to how an M.D. or even a lesser D.C. would possibly have time, and the inclination, to sit around bonfires on Skins's island.

[GOBUCKS]

I think it nearly a zero chance that DUmmy bread crumbs is a doctor. There's an outside chance he could be running an acupuncture scam somewhere, maybe a chiropractor. But it's far more likely he falls into the shaman category, practicing the healing arts through the skilled application of talismans, herbs, and aromatherapy.

Thinking that a legitimate medical doctor could be a DUmmy gives me shivers of revulsion, the kind I get when I see photos of homosexual "marriage" ceremonies.

[Chris_]

As a patient, I would never patronize a physician who claimed the ability to diagnose without ever being in the same building...

[DixieBelle]

I love how he/she claims not to want to do a "Bill Frist" diagnosis (eyeroll) and then proceeds to write a mile long diagnosis of a man he/she has never met much less examined (assuming this person is even qualified to examine a person).

Asshats.

I heard a coworker say that she hated the way McCain walks. She told another coworker that he "walks like an ape." I nearly flew out of my office and went off. 

[mamacags]

Bubbha Jo (77 posts)       Wed Sep-10-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. Ever notice that some of those who acquire Alzheimer's
 are the ones with the biggest egos?

Ever notice that when you say really stupid crap like that you make thousands of people want to rip your balls off and force feed them to you?

[NHSparky]

Having your head up your ass doesn't qualify you to call yourself a proctologist, DUmmie, but don't let me stop you....

[delilahmused]

Well maybe they're all preparing for lone star's Alzheimer story. You know, DU experts who can verify the "facts" of the story. I hope the WP does run with the story though. Everything else the media has tried since Al Gore invented the internet and opened up multiple news sources has failed miserably. You'd think they'd learn...even this election season they've been burned but they just keep doing the same thing over and over again. <insert definition of insanity here>.

Cindie

[Chris_]

Having your head up your ass doesn't qualify you to call yourself a proctologist, DUmmie, but don't let me stop you....

 

[jinxmchue]

No doctor worth his salt would make such a serious diagnosis without a full series of examinations, tests and scans.

[dandi]

Apparently there about half a dozen posters on that thread who claim to be doctors, nurses and social workers who parrot the same crap as the OP.

Well, I've got 23 years in nursing, the last seven specializing in dementia, and I can say unequivocally that they're all full of shit. From my observation there is absolutely no overt symptomology in McCain that would indicate the changes in cognition, behavior or personality that are related to Alzheimer's or any other form of dementia. Anyone with even the most rudimentary training in developmental psychology knows that none of us are "the same person we were eight years ago", or the eight years before that, or the eight years before that, and so on. It's called "growth" or "maturation" or "passing through the developmental stages", what have you. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that if you are the same person you were years ago without the subtle changes that normally resulting from learning, life experiences, maturation, and so forth, then that is more indicative of a pathological mental state than those who do demonstrate change.

Further, I'd state that these self-proclaimed "professionals" in the healing arts who immerse themselves in a hate-filled community like DU then cynically declare their expertise while making false diagnoses of their enemies for political purposes are totally devoid of ethics, a disgrace to their professions, and have no business in the healthcare community. I can only hope that they're lying about their credentials, which would be in no way surprising.

[Carl]

Apparently there about half a dozen posters on that thread who claim to be doctors, nurses and social workers who parrot the same crap as the OP.

Well, I've got 23 years in nursing, the last seven specializing in dementia, and I can say unequivocally that they're all full of shit. From my observation there is absolutely no overt symptomology in McCain that would indicate the changes in cognition, behavior or personality that are related to Alzheimer's or any other form of dementia. Anyone with even the most rudimentary training in developmental psychology knows that none of us are "the same person we were eight years ago", or the eight years before that, or the eight years before that, and so on. It's called "growth" or "maturation" or "passing through the developmental stages", what have you. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that if you are the same person you were years ago without the subtle changes that normally resulting from learning, life experiences, maturation, and so forth, then that is more indicative of a pathological mental state than those who do demonstrate change.

Further, I'd state that these self-proclaimed "professionals" in the healing arts who immerse themselves in a hate-filled community like DU then cynically declare their expertise while making false diagnoses of their enemies for political purposes are totally devoid of ethics, a disgrace to their professions, and have no business in the healthcare community. I can only hope that they're lying about their credentials, which would be in no way surprising.

 

Even though not intended as a diagnosis I would say that is a very accurate description of the primitives.