New talking point: 1st Amendment was written to protect the church from the stat

[Mary Ann]

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217851249

Star Member Nevilledog (46,282 posts)


New talking point: 1st Amendment was written to protect the church from the state




Tweet text:

Acyn
@Acyn
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Scott: We must tell the story of our constitution that the first amendment was written to protect the church from the state, not the state from the church


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5:51 PM · Apr 22, 2023


They're just rewriting history whole cloth now

My goodness! Are they stupid, or what! If any of them had been awake through 10th grade American history, they would have known that is exactly why we have an amendment that says people are FREE from government restrictions to practice their religion.

Zambero (8,272 posts)

2. One slight problem with that premise

The drafters of the first amendment forgot to include it.

Um, it is included.

anciano (46 posts)

7. A logical inconsistency...

They are claiming that based on what?

The First Amendment of the Constitution.

keep_left (1,169 posts)

8. This is exhibit A, B, C, ...Y, and Z in why we need civics education back in the schools.

Not to mention real (non-bowdlerized*) courses in American and world history.
* https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bowdlerization

If we had actual civics education in schools we would have far fewer Democrats. Instead, we have the NEA version of the Constitution.

Star Member Phoenix61 (15,948 posts)

22. This is why they want to trash public education.

Without it they could push this bs.

Yes. "BS" like the Constitution.

[SVPete]

Star Member Nevilledog (46,282 posts)

New talking point: 1st Amendment was written to protect the church from the state

  Here is the relevant section of the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

My emphasis. Congress (and via the 14th Amendment, state and local governments) is restricted, not churches or religious people. The First Amendment protects religious people from having to give tax support to a state religion and from government impinging on free exercise (not limited to what is done inside a church building!).

What DU-Star Member Nevilledog calls a "New talking point" is neither new nor a mere "talking point". That the "1st Amendment was written to protect the church from the state" is the clear meaning of Congress shall make no law and was written to be understood that way back in the 1780s.

DU-Star Member Nevilledog is simply a Christian-hating bigot frustrated that the First Amendment blocks implementing his bigotry.

[SVPete]

keep_left (1,169 posts)

8. This is exhibit A, B, C, ...Y, and Z in why we need civics education back in the schools.

Not to mention real (non-bowdlerized*) courses in American and world history.
* https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bowdlerization

   DU-member keep_left knows he needs to inform the smartest-people-in-America about the meaning of "bowdlerize".

In the real world, what DU-member keep_left calls "bowdlerization" is the clear and historical meaning of the First Amendment.

[ADsOutburst]

"New talking point"? I must say, they have a remarkable ability to forget conversations that have happened countless times over. Oh right, they're not forgetting, they just live in an informational bubble.

8. This is exhibit A, B, C, ...Y, and Z in why we need civics education back in the schools.

Not to mention real (non-bowdlerized*) courses in American and world history.

Yes, DU posts post are exhibit A-ZZZ of why we need that.

[CollectivismMustDie]

These 'people' are felony stupid.

The whole point of the bill of rights was to shackle 'the state' and enact protections against it and limit the scope and scale of its ability to exercise power.

The sentiments expressed in that DUmb OP and its replies are perfect examples of DUnning-kruger narcissism.

[SVPete]

...
The whole point of the bill of rights was to shackle 'the state' and enact protections against it and limit the scope and scale of its ability to exercise power.
...

  & QFT.

"Congress shall make no law ..."

"... shall not be infringed."

"... without the consent of the owner ..."

"... The right of the people to be secure ... shall not be violated ..."

"No person shall be held to answer  ... nor shall any person be subject ... nor shall be compelled  ... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property ... nor shall private property be taken for public use ..."

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right ..."

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

Most of the BoR amendments place specific restrictions on government, and the rest forced government to follow specific proper procedures.

[ADsOutburst]

These 'people' are felony stupid.

The whole point of the bill of rights was to shackle 'the state' and enact protections against it and limit the scope and scale of its ability to exercise power.

The sentiments expressed in that DUmb OP and its replies are perfect examples of DUnning-kruger narcissism.

Yes, because the threat of the state abusing the church far exceeds the church's ability to cause harm. Just like the threat of the state abusing citizens by restricting speech is greater than the threat posed by some conspiracy theorist spreading "disinformation". And so on.

[SVPete]

Yes, because the threat of the state abusing the church far exceeds the church's ability to cause harm. Just like the threat of the state abusing citizens by restricting speech is greater than the threat posed by some conspiracy theorist spreading "disinformation". And so on.

Some of the rights in the BoR are directly based on English abuses ... Puritans, Quakers Separatists, Catholics, Baptists all fled oppression in England.

[Movie buff- The Sequel]

Their ignorance is astounding.
Now, here's a REAL bombshell for them:
Their precious concept of "Separation of Church and State" that they fawn over was created for the same purpose!
That particular term first originated in a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to a group of Baptists (A quasi- persecuted religious minority in America at the time) to assure them that the government wouldn't meddle in their church's affairs. He never intended it to be used the other way around (To prohibit any mention of faith within the government or other public functions) the way secularists like the DUmmies believe it was supposed to be used.

[franksolich]

Go back even further.  The Magna Carta which included some of the first
codifications of personal and communal rights and liberties, was written in 1215 by a churchman, Stephen Langton, Archbishop of Canterbury.

It was a case of the common people, the church, and the barons against a powerful but ineffective government.

As usual, the primitives don't know shit about history.

[SVPete]

Their ignorance is astounding.
Now, here's a REAL bombshell for them:
Their precious concept of "Separation of Church and State" that they fawn over was created for the same purpose!
That particular term first originated in a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to a group of Baptists (A quasi- persecuted religious minority in America at the time) to assure them that the government wouldn't meddle in their church's affairs. He never intended it to be used the other way around (To prohibit any mention of faith within the government or other public functions) the way secularists like the DUmmies believe it was supposed to be used.

While TJ was not in North America when the Constitution was written, he did have input into what became the First Amendment. As a (small-"U") unitarian - i.e. not a Trinitarian Christian - he was concerned that he and Unitarians and Deists and other unorthodox religious believers could be persecuted by Federal government (TJ also participated in a similar amendment/clause being in the Constitution of the State of Virginia) or forced to subsidize a state church.

The First Amendment's "Establishment" and "Free Exercise" clauses restrict government and protect religious believers from the government. That POs at least some DU-folk because they are anti-Christian and/or anti-religious bigots.

[beefeater]

Man, there's nothing like watching a bunch of dope-smoking sexually confused transgenders debating the United States Constitution like freshmen in a college dorm room to provide a few chuckles.