People of faith challenge Democrats

[dutch508]

mdmc  (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-27-08 09:22 AM
Original message
People of faith challenge Democrats 
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3456142
Source: ap

The head of a large African-American denomination challenged the party on abortion. An Orthodox Jewish rabbi raised his voice about school choice. A thirty-something evangelical Christian author warned against Democrats who mock believers.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080827/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_dem...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

challenge accepted

Oh....this will go well...

Zhade  (1000+ posts)      Wed Aug-27-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
91. He's a bit abrasive. I mock the BELIEFS, not the believers.
 After all, I don't mock people who have, say, brain cancer - it's the disease I despise.

KansDem  (1000+ posts)      Wed Aug-27-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
53. "Believers" put Bush in the White House in 2004...
 F*ck 'em! I'll "mock" them as I please...

("People of faith" also put Bush in the White House in 2000, but they got help from Diebold and the SCOTUS).

Zhade  (1000+ posts)      Wed Aug-27-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #54
92. I appreciate believers like you, even though your beliefs are unfounded.
 I'd like to gently remind you that they're not "gay" rights, but equal rights.

Alcibiades (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-27-08 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. No mention of war in the article
 Not telling women what to do with their own bodies is apparently wrong, but developing a multitrillion dollar apparatus for the express purpose of turning living human beings into rotting corpses, and then using it to do so with no good reason, is apparently just fine.

Where are the followers of the "King of Peace?" 

 

TechBear_Seattle  (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-27-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. Some believers deserve to be mocked
 The "Left Behind" crowd, the Flat Earthers, the "vaccines attempt to subvert God's judgement" nut cases, the "bar codes are the Mark of the Beast" weirdos, the "America was founded as a Christian theocracy" traitors.... need I keep going? Why the bloody Hell should we not mock people who should be mocked?

Other than the position that one does not mock the mentally handicapped for their disabilities, that is.

 

spoony  (1000+ posts)      Wed Aug-27-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. If you want to mock vaccine scoffers
 You don't need to look for religious groups, just head over to the Health forum.

Duh!

Zhade  (1000+ posts)      Wed Aug-27-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
97. Mocking faith - the belief in something with absolutely no supporting evidence - is a GOOD thing.
 After all, "faith" is why people believed Iraq had WMD.

still_one  (1000+ posts)     Wed Aug-27-08 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
11. The republican platform says no abortion, even in cases of rape, incest, and the life of the mother
 was killing one million in a war based on a lie mentioned by these so-called "religious" zealots

The U.S. is secular, they don't like that, screw em

still_one  (1000+ posts)     Wed Aug-27-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. that freedom of "state religion" is what defines it as secular. I do mock some believers
 especially those that distort or justify killing in the name of god

 Like the Muslims?

bowens43  (1000+ posts)      Wed Aug-27-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
36. What amazes me is that any of these so called 'people of faith'
 would vote for a republican. the republican party values are in direct conflict with the teachings of Christ.

 

LibDemAlways  (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-27-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Many of these so called "Christian" republicans think
 Edited on Wed Aug-27-08 12:06 PM by LibDemAlways
Jesus taught that greed is good, war is fine, the only life that matters hasn't been born yet, and the poor are poor because they are lazy. The preachers at megachurches here in So Cal are sort of "religion lite" driving home the message "God loves you, and so do I. And, as long as you stuff the collection basket, you can do whatever the hell you want."

MattArgonne (16 posts)      Wed Aug-27-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. you are stereotyping people of faith
 Few Christians I know think of their faith as being some magic genie in the sky. They think about it in a very rational way and shouldn't be expected to come to the same conclusions as you.

matt is not going to be around long.

LeftyMom  (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-27-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. You can't believe in illogical and unlikely things "in a very rational way"
 I really don't give a crap what they believe, but it really has less than nothing to do with politics, and I'm sick of them trying to make our party, political system and country collectively act as though it did. 

MattArgonne (16 posts)      Wed Aug-27-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. what illogical things?
 The difference between most people of faith I know and delusional belief is that the latter believes in irrational things without question or ability to rationalize reality vs. fantasy.

Most people of faith are rational enough to actually struggle with balancing what their faith teaches and the real world. They don't just believe in magic tricks.

ALERT ALERT ALERT!!!

LeftyMom  (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-27-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. If you have to "struggle with what your faith teaches and the real world"
 than there's your problem. Correct teachings should mesh easily with the evidence of the senses, in most cases. If you have to come up with convoluted logical backflips to explain how your belief system is compatible with observable reality, it's probably time to default back to observable reality. 

MattArgonne (16 posts)      Wed Aug-27-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. by struggle I meant...
 I didn't mean they struggle to tell the difference between reality and fantasy. I meant they struggle to balance what their religion traditionally taught and a scientifically complex world. Not everyone just takes the easy road and cast off religion as worthless fairy tales.

LeftyMom  (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-27-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. All that work to reinvent the wheel,
 only your wheel is square. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad. No amount of struggle, balancing and reinvention will change the fact that religious teachings, when they aren't so vague as to be useless, prove demonstrably false. Letting them go isn't the easy thing (anything but in this society) but in the long run it's definitely the smart and healthy thing to do. 

 

Zhade  (1000+ posts)      Wed Aug-27-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #61
119. How does one think rationally about something that's never been proven to exist?
 It's a non-sequitur.

laureloak (1000+ posts)     Wed Aug-27-08 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
99. God does abortions. 
 A miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion.

 

[LC EFA]

Quote
still_one  (1000+ posts)     Wed Aug-27-08 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
11. The republican platform says no abortion, even in cases of rape, incest, and the life of the mother
 was killing one million in a war based on a lie mentioned by these so-called "religious" zealots

The U.S. is secular, they don't like that, screw em

Umm.. Doesn't this contradict their claim that the US is a christofascist theocracy ??

What's more IIRC, it's only 16 odd percent of the US that will identify as "non religious/atheist/agnostic".

Additional to that, there is this pesky little thing about "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

[JohnnyReb]

DUmmies, can't live with'em and you can't live without'em.

But I would like to try just for a little while.....

[Splashdown]

LeftyMom  (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-27-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. If you have to "struggle with what your faith teaches and the real world"
 than there's your problem. Correct teachings should mesh easily with the evidence of the senses, in most cases. If you have to come up with convoluted logical backflips to explain how your belief system is compatible with observable reality, it's probably time to default back to observable reality. 

So explain these liberal "logical backflips...."

• MIHOP/LIHOP
• If you want it, it's a baby. If you don't, it's some kind of tumor.
• Bush is eeeeevil, but Chavez and Castro? Great!

 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Alcibiades (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-27-08 09:35 AM
Response to Original message ...

Interesting choice for a SN.

Alcibiades betrayed his home city, Athens to Sparta during the Pelopennisian war. He then betrayed Sparta to the Persians before slinking his way back into the good graces of Athens with a bunch of empty promises.

[GOBUCKS]

This thread shows the true face of the democrat party. They represent maybe 15% of the population. It is really tragic that the millions of others who will vote democrat do not have an opportunity to see what it is they are supporting.

Quote
Zhade  (1000+ posts)      Wed Aug-27-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
91. He's a bit abrasive. I mock the BELIEFS, not the believers.
 After all, I don't mock people who have, say, brain cancer - it's the disease I despise.

Quote
KansDem  (1000+ posts)      Wed Aug-27-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
53. "Believers" put Bush in the White House in 2004...
 F*ck 'em! I'll "mock" them as I please...

("People of faith" also put Bush in the White House in 2000, but they got help from Diebold and the SCOTUS).

[Chris_]

Interesting choice for a SN.

Alcibiades betrayed his home city, Athens to Sparta during the Pelopennisian war. He then betrayed Sparta to the Persians before slinking his way back into the good graces of Athens with a bunch of empty promises.

In other words, Alcibiades was the "original democrat"......

doc

[DumbAss Tanker]

Alcibiades (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-27-08 09:35 AM
Response to Original message ...

Interesting choice for a SN.

Alcibiades betrayed his home city, Athens to Sparta during the Pelopennisian war. He then betrayed Sparta to the Persians before slinking his way back into the good graces of Athens with a bunch of empty promises.

A very interesting character, oddly his original fall from grace in Athens lay in the ability of his opponents to use the religious zealotry of the masses top turn them against him (he or his henchmen may well have been guilty as charged, but that's beside the point).  The entire episode speaks as much against running a nation's affairs based on religious criteria as it does against trusting its fate to a power-hungry narcissist.