Why is school choice not a Democratic issue?

[Carl]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028069876

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 06:35 PM

Doctor Who (142 posts)

Why is school choice not a Democratic issue?
I live in Philadelphia, PA. The public schools here are horrible. Not to disparage the teachers who do the heavy lifting every day during the school year. But, if I had kids, I would move heaven and earth to get them into a charter school, or move to the outer counties w/ better schools.

Marxists think the government knows what is best for your kids.

Response to Doctor Who (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 06:42 PM

Star Member madokie (47,376 posts)
1. Hey doctor who

this is bullshit republiCON talk you got going there

it doesn't belong here on DU, sorry

What a profound and reasoned argument.

Response to madokie (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 06:50 PM

Doctor Who (142 posts)
5. Sorry we disagree.

There is a "lottery" every year here on who gets a chance to send their kids to a better school. If that's a republican talking point, I think you're missing the bigger picture of how do we fix the problem. No offense meant madokie.

Response to Doctor Who (Reply #5)

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 06:51 PM

Star Member madokie (47,376 posts)
6. Its offensive to me

This is bullshit and nothing less

Educating kids is offensive to a DUmbass.

Response to Doctor Who (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 06:47 PM

Star Member dlwickham (3,119 posts)
3. Charter schools have little if any oversight

And they're notorious for breaking teacher unions.

The money could be better spent on improving existing schools rather than starting new ones.

So a leftist union is what is important.

Response to Doctor Who (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 06:53 PM

Exilednight (8,283 posts)
9. My tax dollars should not go to line the pockets of the rich at the expense

Of any child's education. There is zero proof that charter schools are better than public schools. Just le public schools it's a mixed bag. Some do begter, others do worse.

As a whole, children in charter schools do not perform any better on national tests.

On the flip side, charter schools are private entities. They don't own the school property, nor does the state, it's leased through private corporations who instead of paying teachers they have decided to make money through their lease options.

If you really want your child to have a good education, push for smaller classroom sizes and better funding of arts.

That will fix the gang bangers!

Then this little nugget from the same poster.

Response to 63splitwindow (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 07:17 PM

Exilednight (8,283 posts)
23. to be 100% honest, I send my children to private school.

I live in Texas and I am not thrilled about the school system and choice of text books, and thank goodness I can afford it.

But that doesn't mean I stop fighting for other people's children. If these schools drastically change then I will send them to public school. I'm paying nearly 24k a year for two kids, and that doesn't include school uniforms and items for projects and such.

The reason I do it? 8 to 12 kids to a classroom and the arts. They're getting an amazing education and I really wish every child had the same resources to education that mine are receiving.

Socialism is always for the little people after all.

Response to Doctor Who (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 07:47 PM

Star Member Stinky The Clown (54,638 posts)
36. You're not from around these parts, are ya, friend?

School Choice = GOPeeBullshit

Mike must realize that the trophy wife is getting satisfied elsewhere.

Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #36)

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 07:52 PM

Doctor Who (142 posts)
37. so suck it up, send your kid to a failing school..

Or, your not a good Dem.. Got it.

Pretty much.

Response to Doctor Who (Reply #37)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 02:50 AM

Star Member Skittles (107,960 posts)
130. you'd find a more receptive audience at the Freak Republic

we are not idiots here

Uhm,yeah you are...it is why you are laughed at.

Response to Doctor Who (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 09:48 PM

Star Member JohnnyRingo (11,399 posts)
89. It's union busting

In the decline of manufacturing, the teacher's union is one of the largest donors to the Democratic Party.

The plan is to transfer students to charter and religious schools with federal vouchers that pay tuition. After public schools close due to decreased enrollment, the congress pulls the subsidies, leaving public schools to go to residents for tax levies to reopen their schools.

The win is all round good for the GOP. Public schooling gets funded more by local residents leading to "the best education you can afford". Union teacher get laid off or forced to work at charter schools causing unions to collapse. Less federal tax money goes to fund public schools across the country.

The hope that wealthy kids get a better education than poor students is a long time Republican goal. To do that they have to end federal financing of public schools through No Child Left Behind..

In other words who gives a shit about the kids.

[franksolich]

Mike must realize that the trophy wife is getting satisfied elsewhere.

This is actually pretty solid evidence that all's not well inside the sparkling old dude's head.

He's never before expressed an opinion on education, and it's been eons since he had a kid in school.

Why now?

I guess this is a manifestation of a "micro-stroke"--someone correct me if wrong, though--where a blood vessel inside the brain breaks, and one starts to indulge in behavior one hasn't before, talk about things one hasn't talked about before

As the sparkling old dude's now 70 years old and has the head of a minotaur minus the horns, he's probably a prime potential for a micro-stroke.

[Karin]

Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #36)

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 07:52 PM

Doctor Who (142 posts)
37. so suck it up, send your kid to a failing school..

Or, your not a good Dem.. Got it.

I know, really.  All they can say is "GOP TALKING POINT!  GOP BULLSHIT!"  As they turn a blind eye to a very real problem. 

[Karin]

Response to madokie (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 05:05 AM

TipTok (2,173 posts)

131. Which part do you factually disagree with?
 That the schools are crap?

Or...

Are you just irritated that someone brought it up?

Just le public schools it's a mixed bag. Some do begter, others do worse.

That was exilednight.  We can tell which kind you went to. 

[Movie buff- The Sequel]

They really make no decent arguments, just accusing Doctor Who of "GOP talking points" (Never mind that the Doctor is talking about things he is observing with his own eyes and reporting things the way he sees them, which is pretty much the opposite of "talking points"), Exilednight reveling in his/ her own hypocrisy, and JohnnyRingo showing he cares more about teachers' union thugs (Who in turn only care about increasingly fatter paychecks with zero accountability for their members, and protecting known child molesters within their ranks from facing any kind of punishment) and support for his beloved Dem candidates than about ensuring kids get a good education.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Because teachers' unions and their donations to the DemonRat Party.  No other reason.

[Carl]

This is actually pretty solid evidence that all's not well inside the sparkling old dude's head.

He's never before expressed an opinion on education, and it's been eons since he had a kid in school.

Why now?

I guess this is a manifestation of a "micro-stroke"--someone correct me if wrong, though--where a blood vessel inside the brain breaks, and one starts to indulge in behavior one hasn't before, talk about things one hasn't talked about before

As the sparkling old dude's now 70 years old and has the head of a minotaur minus the horns, he's probably a prime potential for a micro-stroke.

It seems lately that he is even angrier at the universe then usual so am guessing he is unable to get the flag past half staff and "M" is getting fulfilled by more useful means.

[SVPete]

Because teachers' unions and their donations to the DemonRat Party.  No other reason.

Actually, school choice also threatens government-school indoctrination and also threatens to increase the number of young adults not dependent on government social programs. But those are additional reasons.

[98ZJUSMC]

Just le public schools it's a mixed bag. Some do begter, others do worse.

 

A mind is a terrible thing.

[BlueStateSaint]

A mind is a terrible thing.

Did Amber write that dreck?

[SVPete]

If DU has an intros forum it would be an interesting social experiment to post something along the lines of, "Hi, I'm a homeschooling parent." Potential stereotype-based responses abound (and consequent potential for entertainment).

[franksolich]

Did Amber write that dreck?

Thanks for reminding me.

As most here know, Amber was a result of an education directed specifically towards one career, that of.....television production.

Now, who wouldn't want to be into television production?  It's cool, it's hip, it's trendy, it's with it.  It's probably a lot of fun.

Never mind that Amber had no, absolutely no, talents for such a thing.

The Omaha Public Schools a year or so ago decided that all this high school education directed specifically towards one career isn't such a great idea after all, if it directs students into careers in which there's few, if any, jobs.

The purpose of such education after all is to steer students into careers where there's opportunities.

And so the Omaha Public Schools then dropped all classes and education pertaining to things such as acting, dancing, painting, musicianing.....and television production, among others--and are educating and training students into careers such as hotel housekeeping, janitorial, assembly-line work, dishwashing, whatnot--careers in which there's plenty of openings; so many openings there's not enough people qualified to fill them all.

If Amber had been trained in something commonsensical such as commercial laundry or carpet cleaning, she probably would've been out on her own, and making it, a very long time ago, without all the trials and tribulations she's had inbetweentimes.....not to mention she probably wouldn't have acquired all those student loans used in paying for an education that wouldn't get her anything but the most menial jobs anyway.

[hippocritical]

If you really want to see their heads explode, try pointing out that not all charter schools are privately run/managed/chartered. Some are entirely public, with exactly the same auditing, payroll, and oversight as the other public school in the same county.

[ADsOutburst]

The first rule of Democratic issues is you don't ask why something isn't a Democratic issue.

[Delmar]

If we don't need choices when it comes to underarm deodorants or sneakers, why would we need school choice?

http://reason.com/blog/2015/05/26/bernie-sanders-dont-need-23-choices-of-d

[tanstaafl]

They really make no decent arguments, just accusing Doctor Who of "GOP talking points" (Never mind that the Doctor is talking about things he is observing with his own eyes and reporting things the way he sees them, which is pretty much the opposite of "talking points"), Exilednight reveling in his/ her own hypocrisy, and JohnnyRingo showing he cares more about teachers' union thugs (Who in turn only care about increasingly fatter paychecks with zero accountability for their members, and protecting known child molesters within their ranks from facing any kind of punishment) and support for his beloved Dem candidates than about ensuring kids get a good education.

Just look at Wisconsin, after Walker had the state stop collecting the teachers' dues. 70%  of the teachers quit paying.

[FlippyDoo]

Response to Doctor Who (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 06:53 PM

Exilednight (8,286 posts)
9. My tax dollars should not go to line the pockets of the rich at the expense

Of any child's education. There is zero proof that charter schools are better than public schools. Just le public schools it's a mixed bag. Some do begter, others do worse.

To be nadinologically correct I believe the word used should be 'worst' instead of the bolded.

You welcome.

[SVPete]

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 06:53 PM

Exilednight (8,286 posts)
9. My tax dollars should not go to line the pockets of the rich at the expense

Of any child's education.

Ummmm ... 1.) many charter schools are government schools; 2.) many/most (the vast majority?) private schools are or are operated by non-profit organizations; 3.) somewhere between most and the vast majority of homeschoolers are middle class (of the hundreds - >1000 - of homeschooling families we knew, at most 3, and maybe only 1, had incomes >$100K). So, "line the pockets of the rich," is a red herring, a chimeric bogeyman. And "at the expense Of any child's education," if referring to private education - campus or home - is false.

[Carl]

Tue Aug 2, 2016, 06:53 PM

Exilednight (8,286 posts)
9. My tax dollars should not go to line the pockets of the rich at the expense

Of any child's education.

Nor should mine go to line the pockets of incompetent tenured hacks that make twice the average income on half a years work all the while turning out semi literates incapable of work or higher education.

[miskie]

My kids are all charter school kids, and I just love the way Dems malign them. -Especially since nearly every charter school is an inner city enterprise, and charters are primarily educating students who's parents are too poor to get them into a private school.

Storytime...

I was listening to a local talkshow run by a liberal - like virtually all liberal talkshows, this one no longer airs.. Anyway, the topic of charter schools came up, and the host had a call in from a liberal teacher of many years who gave another reason as to why leftist instructors dislike the charters beyond the usual union complaint. He said (paraphrase.. unlike a DUmmy, I can't remember a conversation from years ago..) That charters attract motivated students and motivated parents, leaving the dregs behind in the public schools.  - So.. a proud member of the NEA made what he actually thinks of the kids he teaches clear... dregs. (BTW, I do remember that word.. because it was shocking to hear) He also went on to explain dropping test averages, which results in trouble for the public schools, and the need to 'teach to the test' to prevent that.

Making it even more clear what an NEA teacher union type thinks. Many students are dregs, who are there because they have to be, and the motivated kids who are leaving for charter schools are making harder to keep unionized teachers employed because of falling standardized test averages.

[SVPete]

My kids are all charter school kids, and I just love the way Dems malign them. -Especially since nearly every charter school is an inner city enterprise, and charters are primarily educating students who's parents are too poor to get them into a private school.

Storytime...

I was listening to a local talkshow run by a liberal - like virtually all liberal talkshows, this one no longer airs.. Anyway, the topic of charter schools came up, and the host had a call in from a liberal teacher of many years who gave another reason as to why leftist instructors dislike the charters beyond the usual union complaint. He said (paraphrase.. unlike a DUmmy, I can't remember a conversation from years ago..) That charters attract motivated students and motivated parents, leaving the dregs behind in the public schools.  - So.. a proud member of the NEA made what he actually thinks of the kids he teaches clear... dregs. (BTW, I do remember that word.. because it was shocking to hear) He also went on to explain dropping test averages, which results in trouble for the public schools, and the need to 'teach to the test' to prevent that.

Making it even more clear what an NEA teacher union type thinks. Many students are dregs, who are there because they have to be, and the motivated kids who are leaving for charter schools are making harder to keep unionized teachers employed because of falling standardized test averages.

Ya know, PSs could "easily" put a lot of private schools out of business very "easily". If PSs dropped the PC-crap, re-imposed discipline (up to and including expelling inveterate trouble-makers), and taught well, private schools (campus-based and homeschooling) would soon be the domains of "the rich" (who don't want their kids mixing outside of their social milieu), religious people who don't trust PSs and/or want their religious beliefs incorporated into what their kids are taught, and those who reject the classroom model of education. But becoming excellent entails more work that many educrats and even some teachers want to do, so they focus on sabotaging, burdening, and outlawing their competition and short-circuiting the education of PS students.

[miskie]

Ya know, PSs could "easily" put a lot of private schools out of business very "easily". If PSs dropped the PC-crap, re-imposed discipline (up to and including expelling inveterate trouble-makers), and taught well, private schools (campus-based and homeschooling) would soon be the domains of "the rich" (who don't want their kids mixing outside of their social milieu), religious people who don't trust PSs and/or want their religious beliefs incorporated into what their kids are taught, and those who reject the classroom model of education. But becoming excellent entails more work that many educrats and even some teachers want to do, so they focus on sabotaging, burdening, and outlawing their competition and short-circuiting the education of PS students.

This tactic is in every liberal's playbook, regardless of venue. Can't beat em ? Disappear them.

[98ZJUSMC]

If we don't need choices when it comes to underarm deodorants or sneakers, why would we need school choice?

http://reason.com/blog/2015/05/26/bernie-sanders-dont-need-23-choices-of-d

  

But, choosing murder?  Gotta have it. 

[Movie buff- The Sequel]

Oh, and one more thing:
At times, the DUmmies lamely try to answer the voucher question by claiming that all the public schools need is to have more taxpayers' money shoveled at them and their teachers, and they'll automatically become wonderful educational utopias that no students would ever want to transfer from.
Problem is, to come to this conclusion, they conveniently ignore the public school situation in Chicago; Its public school teachers are among the best paid in the country, yet their schools are among the worst in the country in every sense.